Dr Cheney looking into low dose oxygen therapy at night

[anciendaze]

@PatJ

There is a problem in consulting Buddhist sources concerning sleep. There are texts saying that the Gotama Buddha did not sleep at all after enlightenment, merely resting on his right side, alert, like a lion. There is even a name for this "lion posture", sihasana.

Texts which talk about him sleeping complicate the problem by also saying that people spoke to him and received answers.

People who knew me in the Army insisted that they once saw me perform a radio communications check in my sleep, when those on watch were slow to answer, but I am certain I have never achieved enlightenment.

This is, in any case, too high a standard to set for ordinary mortals, with or without illness.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@PatJ Thank you for the additional info and I will reply later to it for sure. I have a basic pulse ox finger tip monitor from Amazon that records 02 Sat and Heart Rate but just for that moment in time. It does not have any software or a way to use it to record 02 sats while sleeping. But this is something I have always been curious about. Interesting what you said re: Buddhist monks requiring very little sleep, too.

 

[PatJ]

There are texts saying that the Gotama Buddha did not sleep at all after enlightenment, merely resting on his right side, alert, like a lion.

Buddhist texts, mainly later ones in later traditions, and especially extra-canonical texts, contain hype, exaggeration, and conflicting information. People love to hype their chosen religious figure. Some texts even claim to represent what the Buddha taught but have been verified by scholars to have been made up centuries later. Other texts that are supposedly 'Buddhist' make claims that are counter to what the Buddha taught (one example: many modern Buddhists claim that everything that happens to us is due to kamma/karma, but the Buddha taught that there are various reasons why events happen to us.) Another example is that some people think the Buddha or other enlightened people were immune to pain. Yet, the oldest Buddhist texts describe the Buddha as having back problems and needing to rest. Religious figures and their teachings are distorted by the effects of time.

The four hour sleep period I'm referring to is one that I've come across in different sources about modern nuns and monks (or lay people in intensive retreats) who are dedicated to their practice. The basic message to the meditator is that too much sleep is a waste of time, four hours is good enough if you meditate frequently.

 

[kangaSue]

You also see such an increase in healthy people suffering from hypoxia, like mountain climbers. The difference is that ME/CFS patients show a paradoxical response to supplemental oxygen during the test. It actually causes IVRT to increase, while in mountain climbers there is a decrease in IVRT with oxygen.

This points to a block in oxygen metabolism at a later stage where metabolic byproducts are being cleared. Evidence of PEM is consistent with this.

A number of hydroxylase inhibitors are under development which might hold the answer to episodic hypoxia;
https://www.jci.org/articles/view/84433
[The evidence outlined above, which supports key roles for hypoxia- and hydroxylase-sensitive transcriptional pathways in immunity and inflammation, indicates that pharmacological interference with these pathways would likely have immunological consequences. However, given the complex and pleiotropic roles of hypoxia-responsive pathways in distinct immune cell types, a prediction of whether hypoxia and/or hydroxylase inhibition would ultimately be pro- or antiinflammatory is difficult to make without testing the impact of pharmacological hydroxylase inhibition in vivo.

Studies implicating hypoxia-responsive pathways in inflammatory disease are supported by data demonstrating the impact of targeting the HIF pathway with pharmacological hydroxylase inhibitors for the treatment of inflammatory disease (12, 103). Initial work in this area demonstrated a beneficial effect of hydroxylase inhibition on disease progression in mouse models of colitis (104, 105). This protective effect was found to be due primarily to the promotion of intestinal epithelial barrier function through the inhibition of apoptosis and the expression of genes that enhance barrier function (46, 106). Subsequent studies demonstrated a broader antiinflammatory effect of pharmacological hydroxylase inhibition in diseases such as ischemic acute kidney injury and sepsis, leading to the conclusion that other mechanisms of therapeutic action may also be involved (65, 107). Indeed, recent studies have implicated hydroxylase inhibitors in the suppression of cytokine-activated NF-κB–dependent proinflammatory pathways, which may underpin a more general antiinflammatory effect of these drugs (64). Therefore, while hypoxia-sensitive pathways clearly play a complex and multifaceted role in the regulation of immunity and inflammation, the pharmacological activation of these pathways through the application of hydroxylase inhibitors provides a strong, net antiinflammatory effect in multiple models (Figure 3). Future clinical studies are likely to be directed towards investigating the potential of hydroxylase inhibitors as a new class of antiinflammatory agents.]

 

[kikala]

hi all, I know this thread is from nearly a year ago, but I'm wondering if anyone knows anything new on the topic?

Last spring I had a sleep study and had multiple apneas -- around 21 AHI. I also had lots of desaturations, with 122 minutes under 88, with the lowest reading at 78. I started using the CPAP and measured my O2 levels overnight again. Apneas basically disappeared, but the desaturations were the same.

Now the pulmonologist wants me to get an xray and pulmonology function test, and wants me to try supplemental oxygen. I asked him if there were any risks for doing this, and he said "No, the risk is having such low O2 levels."

Any thoughts about the pros and cons of trying supplemental O2 would be much appreciated! Thanks!

 

[keenly]

hi all, I know this thread is from nearly a year ago, but I'm wondering if anyone knows anything new on the topic?

Last spring I had a sleep study and had multiple apneas -- around 21 AHI. I also had lots of desaturations, with 122 minutes under 88, with the lowest reading at 78. I started using the CPAP and measured my O2 levels overnight again. Apneas basically disappeared, but the desaturations were the same.

Now the pulmonologist wants me to get an xray and pulmonology function test, and wants me to try supplemental oxygen. I asked him if there were any risks for doing this, and he said "No, the risk is having such low O2 levels."

Any thoughts about the pros and cons of trying supplemental O2 would be much appreciated! Thanks!

Dr Cheney does not recommend CPAP, but he does use low dose oxygen so your pulmonologist may be on the right track. I want to explore this myself. I have not got an accurate overnight pulse oximeter yet.