Dr Charles Shepherd give BBC Radio Interview

[Enid]

Ra ra ra - what a vicious/malicious group we are - sadly not the case - would that I had the energies to consider their pathetic case of persecution. Keep feeling they need to visit a Psycho (well might help - wrong thinking and all the rest)

 

[Esther12]

Wow........
Your media in the UK is majorly effed up......

Did anybody provide genuine evidence of "torrents of abuse" or "harrassment"? Or does the media just swallow such statements whole? Those are pretty extreme statements to publish without strong evidence. To say nothing of denigrating an entire group of people for the actions of a few.

Yeah. It's a bit depressing that they've got so much sympathetic publicity for their side of the debate without even needing to present an argument - never mind any evidence in support of it. Science journalism in this country is a bit of a joke - they've all been scarred by MMR, so now just report whatever the Science Media Centre tells them to.

On the plus side, Wessely comparing CFS to Alzheimers and Schizophrenia rather than depression shows how much he's had to change over the years. I wonder how acceptable it would be to tell Alzheimer's patients that they had control over their illness, and could recover by adopting more functional cognitions.

We need to dig out his old papers that show exactly how he was treating patients in the early nineties. His current claim that patients simply resent his interest in neuro-psychiatric factors is just embarrassing.

 

[Enid]

Esther - you will never get this man right - he is wedded to psychiatry - no plus sides in this thinking in relation to ME. A dead duck in any real medicine. Hey I've 4 proper Docs (various specialists) in my own family who well recognise the multisystem pathologies of ME.

 

[Esther12]

Esther - you will never get this man right - he is wedded to psychiatry - no plus sides in this thinking in relation to ME. A dead duck in any real medicine. Hey I've 4 proper Docs (various specialists) in my own family who well recognise the multisystem pathologies of ME.

He's had to change how he presents his ideas. That indicates good things for us imo.

 

[Enid]

If he (W) is slipping and changing - good for him - but we have stood by long enough watching him et al growing up at our expense. Less concern with his(their) childhood suits me and I'm sure the whole ME community. Nothing innocent about their (adult) protestations - far too wiley - and no concern - no audience they crave here. He is simply a non topic in Kent.

 

[Firestormm]

The media coverage today that began with the BBC Radio 4 Today programme was - as far as I can tell - a follow-up to the British Medical Journal's articles. Most relevant that from Nigel Hawkes.

The topic discussed in the BMJ was the same and the contributors were the same with some additional comments/interviews today. This was not primarily about psychological research vs. biological.

This was about all forms of abuse and intimidation directed at all forms of research not considered by some idiots as being the 'right' research in their opinions.

Earlier it was asked why there was no biomedical researcher present. Well, as I said, I suspect it was because those featured had a) been in the BMJ, and b) decided to speak out about the intimidation.

This wasn't about 'Research into CFS/ME' this was about how research is being jeopardised by idiots. All this media attention of late all the space taken up in the BMJ and none of it helping me in any way shape or form.

I am surprised 'incitement' didn't feature more strongly among the other words used throughout...

 

[PokerPlayer]

So whats the consensus on Wessely and whether or not he knows the true biological origin of cfs/me and gulf war syndrome. Or, if the government found somebody eccentric enough about psychiatry that they didn't have to tell him to cover something up?

My 2 cents is that Wessely and the likes actually do believe in what they are saying, they think they have the whole world figured out and nothing would ever change their mind. It would really be horrible to think that they would know the truths and follow through with what they are doing.

But, if the illness is truly caused by contaminated vaccines, then maybe they believe they are doing necessary evil for the greater good. Which means it is the greater good for the greatest amount of people if people still believe in vaccines being harmless so that a few died from xmrv but at least they didn't die from mmr, hepatitis, etc?

 

[Enid]

What - Wessely and Co thinking of the greater good (not their own) - there's a thought - but not possible to such tiny self seeking minds.

 

[Esther12]

So whats the consensus on Wessely and whether or not he knows the true biological origin of cfs/me and gulf war syndrome. Or, if the government found somebody eccentric enough about psychiatry that they didn't have to tell him to cover something up?

My 2 cents is that Wessely and the likes actually do believe in what they are saying, they think they have the whole world figured out and nothing would ever change their mind. It would really be horrible to think that they would know the truths and follow through with what they are doing.

But, if the illness is truly caused by contaminated vaccines, then maybe they believe they are doing necessary evil for the greater good. Which means it is the greater good for the greatest amount of people if people still believe in vaccines being harmless so that a few died from xmrv but at least they didn't die from mmr, hepatitis, etc?

I think that he's realised that CFS often doesn't have a significant emotional cause, and that his early work has screwed over a lot of patients, so he's emphasising how meaningless it is to try to distinguish between psychological and neurological factors in order to avoid acknowledging the seriousness of his own errors.

 

[Enid]

Esther if this is the beginning of an apology (can't read him) for all those who have suffered (and died) through mistreatment I just might view.

 

[Esther12]

Esther if this is the beginning of an apology (can't read him) for all those who have suffered (and died) through mistreatment I just might view.

I don't think he could ever bring himself to issue any sort of public apology.... I am now getting dangerously close to the sort of psychological profiling which we're criticising! Hopefully it's clear to all that all my observations will be filtered though my own prejudices, cognitive distortions, and so on. I don't feel the need to be too careful about what I say on a forum.

 

[Bob]

I just came across this on another forum:

Charles shepherd will feature on a BBC item (for 'Points West') to go out
next Tuesday on the Lightning Process trial. Dr Crawley is taking part as
well.

It would be interesting to listen to, but 'Points West' seems to be a local news program for the West of England (So it covers Bristol, where Crawley works), and they don't seem to put the programs online.

 

[Bob]

I'm not sure if I should post this, as I don't want to depress everyone further.

But the Weaselly media machine has been pretty successful today and this story has got around a bit.

I recommend not reading any of these... It's all repetitive stuff, just regurgitating the press release... But I just wanted to place all the info here, in case it's useful for anyone. This is from a list that someone created on another forum, and I haven't done a search to see how much more is out there.


Daily Mail
Scientists investigating ME get 'death threats' for investigating psychological causes
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...g-psychological-causes.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Med India
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Researchers Get 'Death Threats'
http://www.medindia.net/news/Chronic-Fatigue-Syndrome-Researchers-Get-Death-Threats-88392-1.htm

The Straits Times
British chronic fatigue scientists get 'death threats'
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_696203.html

Google News
Chronic fatigue scientists get 'death threats'
http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.2ffb46ba6b1be5db2d6f75f4440c5c02.541

France 24
British chronic fatigue scientists get 'death threats'
http://www.france24.com/en/20110729-british-chronic-fatigue-scientists-get-death-threats

SKNVibes
British chronic fatigue scientists get 'death threats'
http://www.sknvibes.com/news/newsdetails.cfm/36236

PS - PublicService.co.uk
ME research ''being hampered by abuse''
http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=17034

Times Live
Chronic fatigue scientists get death threats
http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/2011/07/29/chronic-fatigue-scientists-get-death-threats


And this is an intelligent blog, with independent thought processes going on:

PS - PublicService.co.uk
The real victims of ME are those with the disease
http://www.publicservice.co.uk/blog_story.asp?id=308

 

[Bob]

I had a flick through the recording of Any Questions, and didn't hear anything about ME. Did I get that bit wrong maybe? It was very early this morning when I heard it advertised! I could have been hallucinating!

I don't usually get up at 6am, but I woke up this morning for the toilet and for a drink of water, and then heard them talking about Wessely and CFS/ME on the 6 o'clock news. So then I had to listen to it all! I managed to send them an email before Wessely was on the radio, but I didn't realise that it would be a recording of him. I thought that they were going to interview him live.

Personally, I thought that Charles Shepherd did a first rate job of representing us, especially with such a difficult, complex and sensitive subject matter. I was really pleased with what he said. He's right about ME being a distinct disease, different to Wessely's CFS. This might be the way we are heading (i.e. the separation of CFS from ME), especially with the new International Consensus Criteria being published.

For what it's worth, I don't think that people should get depressed about all of this, because I really think that this is the beginning of the end for the Wessely school. I think that they are feeling the pressure, and feeling backed into a corner, and lashing out. What he said today is nothing new... It's just more of the same, and was mild compared with what he's said in the past. I think that all this fuss is just a desperate attempt to maintain the upper hand, and I don't think that it will work for much longer. I believe that the ME patient community is stronger than ever before, and that we will gain the upper hand sometime soon. I think that things are changing. I really believe that the publication of the PACE Trial was the beginning of the end for the psychiatric lobby. They know how bad the results were, and they are squirming.

 

[Bob]

Here's a list of media links on the ME Association website.
If you look at the bottom of the page, there is some good news, because the ME Association has been approached to do further media work.
http://www.meassociation.org.uk/?p=7306

 

[max]

Hi Esther12

I don't think he could ever bring himself to issue any sort of public apology.... I am now getting dangerously close to the sort of psychological profiling which we're criticising! Hopefully it's clear to all that all my observations will be filtered though my own prejudices, cognitive distortions, and so on. I don't feel the need to be too careful about what I say on a forum.

Can you rephrase this so I understand its meaning.

max

 

[max]

only people talking about the media event today is 'us' -

the average Joe/Joanne forgot they heard it earlier today - however, some time in the near future, the subject will again surface, they will immediately recognise the trigger words of 'yuppie-flu', 'psycological', 'dibilitating', and their opinion is fixed in place. You have to hand it to Wessely & Co, they gave us a hiding today.

 

[Graham]

I think Bob's right and this is the start of the end - it won't be quick or clean, but I think the failure of PACE to deliver the evidence that they expected and needed has disheartened them, and my guess is that they are having to work hard at the next stage of the report. I don't support the personal aggression that researchers have had to face, but it seems to me that they are just as sensitive to critical scientific appraisal, which is a sign of weakness.

 

[currer]

I have just sent my e-mail to the today programme. They will be inundated I expect. Every little helps.

I think the internet has turned we voiceless sufferers into a hydra-headed monster. I too detect signs of desperation.
Stigmatising your patients by complaining publicly about them in this extreme way is highly unprofessional in medicine.

 

[Bob]

I have just sent my e-mail to the today programme. They will be inundated I expect. Every little helps.

Great stuff. I hope they are inundated! You've had a long day currer! I went back to bed for a few hours after the Today program! Did you?