Do you react badly to paracetamol/tylenol?

[lansbergen]

I have found that cannabis abolishes muscle pain and weakness within minutes.

It did nothing for my pain but it made me fall asleep

 

[WillowJ]

I can't use Tylenol as it gives me abdominal pain. When I was healthy I could use it, but it didn't really help with anything. It might help a little for 20 minutes is all.

 

[peggy-sue]

Another really neat thing about NAC with paracetamol is that
one of the seriously bad things paracetamol does is grab hold of anything containing sulphur groups in the liver, that's one of its permanent poisoning things,
and NAC contains loads of sulphur groups, so they soak up the paracetamol, protecting the liver, as well as providing glutathione.

Paracetamol overdose doesn't kill immediately. It takes a fortnight or so.

If somebody has taken an overdose, there is a time frame within which it can be reversed using an NAC infusion - of about 12-18 hours.
After that time period, because of the damage caused by the grabbing of the sulphur groups, there can be no reversal, just a slow death from liver failure.

I've just not been coping too well over the last year or so - because of paracetamol poisoning.

Which I have discovered does happen to a PWME (me) when on the stuff in high doses for a long period of time.

It makes sense. I have low energy for all things. Coping with metabolising a whole 3 grams of poison every day is a big extra workload to ask of my body.

I was taking milk thistle to begin with, I was worried about my liver, but it didn't seem to help any.
Perhaps it did and I would have been worse without it? I don't know.

But as soon as I added 2 capsules of 600mg of NAC a day (I take one shortly before my first dose, and another just before my last dose) I started improving and my baseline capabilities rose again.

I've been concentrating on getting as much quality into my life as I can.

 

[Countrygirl]

Have you tried cannabis or CBD oil? There are several threads talking about cannabis helping with pain, but I don't know if it works with neuropathic pain, or whether just the cannabidiol (CBD) oil does (I believe this is legal).

I have found that cannabis abolishes muscle pain and weakness within minutes.

Thanks MeSci. No I haven't and don't know much about it or how to obtain it. I will find the threads about it on the forum. Thank you!

 

[Countrygirl]

Another really neat thing about NAC with paracetamol is that
one of the seriously bad things paracetamol does is grab hold of anything containing sulphur groups in the liver, that's one of its permanent poisoning things,
and NAC contains loads of sulphur groups, so they soak up the paracetamol, protecting the liver, as well as providing glutathione.

Paracetamol overdose doesn't kill immediately. It takes a fortnight or so.

If somebody has taken an overdose, there is a time frame within which it can be reversed using an NAC infusion - of about 12-18 hours.
After that time period, because of the damage caused by the grabbing of the sulphur groups, there can be no reversal, just a slow death from liver failure.

I've just not been coping too well over the last year or so - because of paracetamol poisoning.

Which I have discovered does happen to a PWME (me) when on the stuff in high doses for a long period of time.

It makes sense. I have low energy for all things. Coping with metabolising a whole 3 grams of poison every day is a big extra workload to ask of my body.

I was taking milk thistle to begin with, I was worried about my liver, but it didn't seem to help any.
Perhaps it did and I would have been worse without it? I don't know.

But as soon as I added 2 capsules of 600mg of NAC a day (I take one shortly before my first dose, and another just before my last dose) I started improving and my baseline capabilities rose again.

I've been concentrating on getting as much quality into my life as I can.

Peggy-sue, thank you for sharing the valuable information with us and I'm so sorry that you have discovered it the hard way. I am sad to hear that you have been experiencing a lousy year and I do hope that the future will bring a vast improvement for you.

It is good to hear from you again as I was wondering for some time why you had stopped posting. I do hope you hang around here again and post once more.

with my warm wishes,

C.G.

 

[peggy-sue]

Thank-you, Countrygirl.
I was finding things just a bit much here. I couldn't follow the science (too foggy) I also got really swept up in the referendum up here, and had to pay attention to tons of politics.

And while I could read folks' stories, the suffering I was reading about got too much to bear. I just couldn't really fit PR in and cope with my own life as best I could.

But I could not ignore a plea for help with having to take paracetamol, not when that's one of the reasons I've been so bad for so long and when I've "found" the answer via experimentation on myself.

I just wish I could have told you, when you needed to know for your Mum.

I've always known about NAC being the antidote to paracetamol, it was discovered by a chap called Prof.Laurie Prescott., working in pharmacology in Edinburgh and that was probably around the early '70s. My Aunt Isobel was his secretary.
I don't know why I didn't think to start taking it sooner.

I didn't know until recently it was available as a food supplement from health food shops and is an energy supplement some PWME take anyway.
The way the biochemistry works is just completely neat and perfect.

 

[MeSci]

Paracetamol overdose doesn't kill immediately. It takes a fortnight or so.

If somebody has taken an overdose, there is a time frame within which it can be reversed using an NAC infusion - of about 12-18 hours.
After that time period, because of the damage caused by the grabbing of the sulphur groups, there can be no reversal, just a slow death from liver failure.

Some people survive, even without early treatment. I did. I took a massive overdose of 65 paracetamol and the equivalent of a whole bottle of benzos. I was unconscious for about 24 hours AFAIK, and was definitely not given NAC within that time. I had liver and kidney failure, and had to have dialysis for the former and was catheterised due to the latter.

I was as astonished as anyone when all my organs apparently recovered completely, but it seems it's not unique, according to this paper. It says, for example:

Acute or chronic alcohol abuse was not predictive of a poorer outcome, nor was lack of treatment with NAC in the referring hospital.

 

[peggy-sue]

Fascinating - and thanks for clarifying, MeSci.
(I was indulging in simple sweeping statements, my current level of functioning. )

To be honest, I don't have a clue how I got out of my alcoholism without permanent liver damage, but I did.
I had been drinking about 32 "units" of alcohol a day for at least 2 years.
Any normal liver can only cope with 24 units in 24 hours.

I had some temporary damage, which was reversed with B vitamins, eating again and time. (more sweeping statements. )

Some of us just appear to have the constitution of an ox.

 

[eafw]

For those of you who use NAC as a food supplement, is there a particular brand/supplier (UK) or way to take the stuff that you can recommend ?

 

[peggy-sue]

The cheapest I could find was from Holland and Bartlett, but it's still over £8 for a bottle of 30.
It's best to get a load when they've got it on a "buy one get one free or half price" offer.
Other brands I looked at were up to £40 a bottle - but I don't know how much was in it. It was being touted by the health shop owner as being vastly superior to the H&B stuff, but my supplements are all very expensive, I can't afford the "superior" stuff, and the H&B stuff works for me to counteract the paracetamol I have to take.

It's a bit smelly (all the sulphur groups) and can upset my stomach if I don't drink fluids with it.

I just got one bottle at first, to see if it helped. It did, almost immediately. I could do "more" by the next day.

It might be best taken with food.

 

[eafw]

It might be best taken with food.

Can it be sprinkled on food rather than swallowed as capsules ? I struggle to swallow whole pills.

 

[peggy-sue]

I would think so, but it really IS smelly and disgusting stuff, much easier to try to get it all down at once in a capsule if at all possible, but then, I've never had any trouble swallowing pills.

My bottles of capsules stink, I can smell it when taking it and it comes back on me a bit afterwards.

If it were to be put in food, I think I'd rather mix it well into something with a strong flavour to disguise it, than "sprinkle it" liberally on top!

 

[eafw]

it really IS smelly and disgusting stuff

Thanks for the info, have a bit of a delicate stomach so might not manage it very well. Interesting stuff though.

 

[peggy-sue]

I had a thought about you last night, regarding the trouble you have swallowing pills.

I take most of my supplements in pill or capsule form with food - and I find that it is really easy to get a pill down with a bit of food, rather than trying to get it down with liquid.

Sorry if this sounds a little bit disgusting!
I take a mouthfull of food and chew it quite well, then get a little bit of it ready for swallowing, and chuck the pill in then. I have 15 pills/capsules to get down with my evening meal, and I can manage them all with just one or two mouthfulls of food.

I like to get them down quickly, so I can enjoy the most part of my meal.

My throat seems to let itself expand a bit more when it knows it is getting food down.

Swallowing a big lump of pill still sticks with just water to wash it down with.

Perhaps you could try that, and see if it works for you?

It can't be easy for you, having so much trouble getting things down.

 

[Gingergrrl]

I had not heard the word Paracetamol before this thread but Googled it and learned it is the same as the generic Acetaminophen in the US (most common brand being Tylenol.)

For whatever reason, Tylenol and drugs that contain it along with hydrocodone (like Norco) are one of the few meds that I can tolerate with absolutely no problems! I seem to be the opposite of this thread. I rarely ever take plain Tylenol and take a small dose of a Norco for cramps or other severe pain.

Norco only has 325 mg of Tylenol (APAP) per pill, and I take 1/4 or a half pill so minimal Tylenol. Only for severe cramps where pain in excruciating do I take the full pill which has 325 mg Tylenol. Whereas if you take two Extra Strength Tylenol it would be 1000 mg! I can see how that would be very hard on the liver.

I cannot tolerate NSAIDS which give me severe GI pain, nausea and once almost an ulcer. They also have potential cardiac side effects which I cannot risk.

Very interesting thread!

 

[peggy-sue]

I've had to learn what tylenol and acetaminophen are, myself
AND how to spell them.
I've been swallowing 3 grams a day of the (useless for me) stuff for nearly two years.

I'm just glad for you that you do have something which works, which you can tolerate, Gingergrrl.

I'm still waiting for a physiotherapy appointment to deal with the problem...

 

[Gingergrrl]

I'm just glad for you that you do have something which works, which you can tolerate, Gingergrrl.

@peggy-sue Thank you and it is true, there seem to be very few meds on earth that I can tolerate .

 

[MeSci]

It can't be easy for you, having so much trouble getting things down.

I had terrible trouble swallowing pills as a child - even absolutely tiny ones. I think it was largely due to fear (I was full of fear as a child). But it's suddenly occurred to me why I might have been afraid of trying to swallow pills. At the age of 5 I choked on a sweet in hospital. If I hadn't been in hospital I might have died. It was a terrifying experience.

Nowadays I only have difficulty when my throat is inflamed or raw, e.g. if I have a sore throat or perhaps if I am very dehydrated.

BTW, if anyone wants a clearer indication of the incidence of intolerance to paracetamol, a poll could be created. Suggested options:

I can tolerate paracetamol and it works for me
I can tolerate paracetamol but it doesn't work for me
I cannot tolerate paracetamol but it does work for me
I cannot tolerate paracetamol and it doesn't work for me

I don't know if it's still possible to add it to this thread.

 

[Countrygirl]

I just had a thought........(it happens occasionally).......for me the reaction to paracetamol hits me the following day. It is a delayed reaction, so maybe some who think they can tolerate it don't realise that any worsening of symptoms the next day is a result of the pain killer (I didn't find it worked anyway)

 

[peggy-sue]

That makes complete sense - if it has used up all, or most of your reserves of glutathione.

The going downhill was slow and accumulative for me. I think I could have tolerated it for a short while,

it was the daily onslaught of so much of it, over an extended period of time,
that led to my serious downgrading.