Do MEs cause CFS?

[BurnA]

@MeSci -

Different HLA's have a tendency to make antibodies that match certain things. For example, rheumatoid arthritis is strongly associated with HLA-DR4 and SLE and MS have strong associations with HLA-DR3. This is true of autoinflammatory (non antibody mediated) diseases as well, and all the serognegative spondyloarthropathies (ankylosing spondylitis, reactive arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, etc.) are associated with HLA-B27. Psoriasis is associated with HLA-Cw6. The list goes on - name an autoimmune or autoinflammatory condition and it will have an HLA association. Without the right HLA's, your body won't make antibodies to certain self antigens (or will be much less likely to).

Is psoriasis considered autoimmune ?

 

[Eeyore]

Is psoriasis considered autoimmune ?

That depends on the definition. Dr. Edwards would say no, as he makes the distinction between autoimmune and autoinflammatory, the first being mediated by an autoantibody, and the latter by an aberrant inflammatory process that does cause damage to self by the immune system.

Psoriasis would be autoinflammatory. Psoriatic arthritis is different - but it is also autoinflammatory.

Some people use autoimmune to encompass both classes, but it is generally agreed that psoriasis is not caused by any kind of antibody against self, whichever definition you prefer.

 

[BurnA]

That depends on the definition. Dr. Edwards would say no, as he makes the distinction between autoimmune and autoinflammatory, the first being mediated by an autoantibody, and the latter by an aberrant inflammatory process that does cause damage to self by the immune system.

Psoriasis would be autoinflammatory. Psoriatic arthritis is different - but it is also autoinflammatory.

Some people use autoimmune to encompass both classes, but it is generally agreed that psoriasis is not caused by any kind of antibody against self, whichever definition you prefer.

Thanks ! Just wondering because my sister had psoriasis and I have cfs/me .... Could that indicate anything ( from a genetic point of view )

 

[Eeyore]

It's possible. Psoriasis is related to a number of genes - HLA-Cw6 is only one of them. If you've done 23andme you can check for susceptibility snp's. A susceptibility to psoriasis might also confer susceptibility to ME, but we don't know if that's the case yet. I'm not aware of psoriasis being more common in the ME population, but I'm not really aware of any studies at all on psoriasis in ME or family members of ME patients.

 

[BurnA]

The questions are beginning to get too tricky! The trouble is I think it can work both ways around. The virus may trigger a hyper-responsiveness or the hyper-responsiveness may be there waiting for the first virus to show it up. I am sceptical about some of the standard stories about infectious triggers like molecular mimicry but I have to admit that for ME viral episodes somewhere at the beginning do look as if they must be relevant to at least some subgroups.

I strongly suspect that many of my subgroups can 'gang up' and overlap and maybe slip from one to another but I would also hold out for the idea that some are just completely unrelated - like ME1 and ME2. We see that in autoimmune rheumatic diseases. Some can overlap and some have nothing to do with each other even though they can be almost impossible to tell apart.

In this article there is a hypothesis that the immune system remains 'On' post infection.

http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/2014/11/22/infections-genes-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/
(I'm not sure if it has been discussed in detail elsewhere)

Is this possible? would this be similar / equivalent to your ME5 or where would it fall in your theories ?
Thanks

 

[BurnA]

The antibodies in MS might be thought of as not so ordinary in that they are made in the wrong place but we do not know if they are auto-. In RA there are also not so ordinary auto-antibodies in that they do not target self because it is self but because they recognise proteins that have arginine converted to citrulline -whether self or non self. So there are a hundred and one ways of having antibodies that do not quite obey the rules and it is not always easy to guess what the seventy-third way is even if you know the seventy-second.

In other words they knew they were looking for the Higgs boson but we don't know what we might be looking for.

Professor Edwards, you've said in the past that if there is something to be found you are hopeful it would be found in the next year or so, do you still have this opinion ?
Also, given your analogy to finding higgs boson and that in ME they don't know what they are looking for ...Do the current techniques allow for the finding of 'unknown' entities or is it a matter of interpreting the findings better?

 

[herpesbaby]

When that person comes off the valtrex, they don't have natural antibody protection anymore, the virus reactivates, and they can get bad outbreaks.

So this analysis of viral titers meaning treatment is required needs to be very carefully thought about.

For how long , maximum, you'd suggest taking valtrex then?

 

[Jesse2233]

@Jonathan Edwards curious to know if your subtype hypothesis has evolved in the last three years given new research and your observations on this forum?