DNA Methylation Modifications Associated with CFS

[A.B.]

Frederick is concerned that "people will read this and immediately jump to the conclusion that humans eating mercury are going to be gay. I want to be very explicit that this study has nothing to say about that," he says."

Yes, it would be interesting to see whether this extends to humans.

 

[MeSci]

Yes, it would be interesting to see whether this extends to humans.

Maybe it would be a way of reducing the human population? Shame it's toxic!

 

[Snow Leopard]

These results should also be compared with those of another recent study:

http://omicsonline.org/open-access/...algic-encephalomyelitis-2155-9899.1000228.pdf

Brenu et al.

 

[MeSci]

Maybe it would be a way of reducing the human population? Shame it's toxic!

Can I make it clear that I was talking about gay people being less inclined to procreate, not anything nasty.

 

[DanME]

Can I make it clear that I was talking about gay people being less inclined to procreate, not anything nasty.

I hope so!

 

[natasa778]

The cell danger response will go on and on as long as the danger is not eliminated.

An article
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567724913002390

My take is that it can go on even after the danger is eliminated

 

[lansbergen]

My take is that it can go on even after the danger is eliminated

Anything is possible but based on my observations during my improvement I have reason to believe attacks slow down and eventually stop at the spots the danger is eliminated.

 

[Leopardtail]

To clarify, this study isn't looking at the prevalence of the genes involved in the methylation cycle (MTHFR, MTRR, BHMT, etc). Rather it's looking at how methylated various genes are. Some are hypermethylated and some are hypomethylated, which would seem to suggest that the problem is in the regulation of the methylation cycle from an outside factor, rather than a strictly genetic issue in those methylation genes themselves.

Hypermethylated genes: ATG7 BCL10 CD83 FCER2 HLA-H IL19 IL1RL1 LAIR1 TNFSF13B TREM2
Hypomethylated genes: CD3D CD3E CD3G CD96 FASLG HLA-E ICOS LAX1 LCK LY9

Maybe this would also mean that supplements and vitamins encouraging methylation might be somewhat helpful for ME/CFS patients, regardless of methylation cycle mutations?

This could also be downstream of ATP issues. Methyl supplements deliver Methionine, but that must be converted to SAM using ATP (destroying the ATP in the process).
It seems to be a clue, but a small one.

 

[kday]

Putting things very simply - the addition of methyl groups can have a epigenome wide effect.

Based on my experience, I think that supplying these methyl groups can help - but it is not a cure.

Meditation alone causes epigenetic changes in several thousand genes. While I would agree that current regimens seen on this board will not specifically target genes in this study or any other, the combination of diet, exercise (as tolerated), and meditation should substantially help with epigenetic regulation vs one intervention alone.

And things like SIBO, active infections, or any type of stress can have a negative impact on DNA methylation.

So while we aren't targetting any specific gene from a very specific list, we are casting a much wider net over many thousands of genes. I think these are some pretty basic concepts that we sometimes forget.

I don't think there will ever be therapies that will target these or any other specific genes, nor do I think our population will ever be candidates for anything like vector gene therapy. But I do think it's possible that research like this could lead more effective therapies that will positively influence the epigenome for a variety of conditions. And of course, there are simple methods that I already mentioned that can be put to use right now.

But I don't think having a genetic reductionist mindset will ever solve anything since I don't believe this is a genetic condition. Genetics may be a minor or major influence just like with anything else. But I just don't see genetics as causative.

 

[Helen]

But I don't think having a genetic reductionist mindset will ever solve anything since I don't believe this is a genetic condition. Genetics may be a minor or major influence just like with anything else. But I just don't see genetics as causative.

Hi kday,

It would be interesting to get to know more about your reasons for this opinion. You might know more about this from all the 23andme tests that have passed through your site GeneticGenie than we others do, though the test is far from a full genome.

 

[Hip]

In my understanding this study has nothing to do with RichvanK's work. Methylation of the DNA activates or inactivates certain gens and their expression in relation to other bodily processes (like autoimmunity) and environmental factors (like an infection or stress). It is not about the methylation process itself.

I appreciate what you are saying, but if the methylation process is down-regulated, then isn't that likely going to affect everything that depends on methylation, including DNA methylation?

Since the study found that genes associated with immune cell regulation were hypomethylated, wouldn't this suggest that boosting methylation by the supplements recommended by Rich Van K might help normalize immune cell functions, by correcting DNA hypomethylation?

 

[Simon]

New $500k grant for follow-up study!

I was quite critical when this came out, and remain concerned by the sample size. However, I've since read carefully and the methodology itself looks extremely good

And SMCI have just secured a $500k grant for a n=300 expanded study, which completely vindicates its approach here. Congratulations, we need many more pilot=>full scale replication studies, and Suzanne Vernon has a very good track record on this. I'd love to see other charities following suit.

$500,000 grant awarded to the Solve ME/CFS Initiative to further epigenetic research | Solve ME/CFS Initiative

We are thrilled to announce that the Solve ME/CFS Initiative (SMCI) has received a one-year, $500,000 Catalyst Research Program Award through the Dr. Ralph & Marian Falk Medical Research Trust. This competitive funding opportunity was designed to support research that leads directly to the development of treatments and cures for diseases for which there are no effective treatments or cures today.

SMCI will partner with Drs. Lucinda Bateman founder and director of the Fatigue Consultation Clinic and Patrick O. McGowan of the University of Toronto to expand the epigenetic study of myalgic encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) originally funded by SMCI in 2012.