Disparaging Mikovits Is Also Disparaging the Ruscettis, Lo, Alter, and Others

[FancyMyBlood]

Interesting interpretation...it may explain a lot about your arguement to date. It seems you may not see the words that are actually on the screen. Either that or one us has severe cognitive issues, and it cant be me because there's absolutely nothing wrong with me that a nice chat and a stroll in the countryside wont fix (and I have paperwork to prove it).

Then please explain me how my interpretation can be taken any other way. It's pretty clear to me this whole appeal to authority is merely (mis)used to defend the HGRV hypothesis. And indeed, if we take a look at the other forum vdt33/rain states that: "Would someone please give me feedback on a comment I wrote (below) defending Mikovits and her research."

 

[Wonko]

.It's pretty clear to me this whole appeal to authority is merely (mis)used to defend the HGRV hypothesis..

Therein lies the problem

I would also point out that not only is this thread not specifically about the HGRV hypothesis, it's also on this forum, not the other one - what are you going to bring in next - tips on childcare if someone in this forum also posts on mumsnet?

This is fun isn't it?

 

[FancyMyBlood]

Therein lies the problem

I would also point out that not only is this thread not specifically about the HGRV hypothesis, it's also on this forum, not the other one - what are you going to bring in next - tips on childcare if someone in this forum also posts on mumsnet?

Please, it's the exact same text he/she posted there. I don't know how clear-cut you wanna have it but Mikovits' research is the HGRV hypothesis. Denying it won't make a difference.

edit

We have a nice case of denialism here:

OP: I want to defend her research (aka the HGRV hypothesis)
Wonko first response: this thread has nothing to do with the HGRV hypothesis.
FMB: Yes it is, check this quote.
Wonko: it's not specifically about the HGRV hypothesis.

 

[Wonko]

Who's denying it?

Her research is being attacked in other threads, this thread is about attacks on her and others associated with her - this is not the same thing!

 

[FancyMyBlood]

Who's denying it?

Her research is being attacked in other threads, this thread is about attacks on her and others associated with her - this is not the same thing!

Vdt33 states him/herself it's about her research also. Read the quote of vdt33/rain again.

 

[Wonko]

edit

We have a nice case of denialism here:

OP: I want to defend her research (aka the HGRV hypothesis)
Wonko first response: this thread has nothing to do with the HGRV hypothesis.
FMB: Yes it is, check this quote.
Wonko: it's not specifically about the HGRV hypothesis.

Interesting...so thats the way you see it then?

Lets look at the first one so please show me where in this thread the OP said "I want to defend her research (aka the HGRV hypothesis) - or words to that effect, as I cant fidn it, must be me what with being raving, lazy etc.

 

[FancyMyBlood]

Interesting...so thats the way you see it then?

Lets look at the first one so please show me where in this thread the OP said "I want to defend her research (aka the HGRV hypothesis) - or words to that effect, as I cant fidn it, must be me what with being raving, lazy etc.

It's not in this forum, but on the other he/she clearly states that

Would someone please give me feedback on a comment I wrote (below) defending Mikovits and her research.

I tried to publish it as a comment on Jamie's blog, but either it was too large or there was no more room for comments.

Would someone help me publish it as a comment somewhere else? And suggest where.

Thank you in advance.

I must say I'm glad she/he admits it on the other forum because otherwise it would be really hard to prove it, although any objective reader can make it up easily from the rest of the text.


http://www.mecfsforums.com/index.php/topic,9820.0.html

 

[Wonko]

but this thread isnt about whats said in the other forum, what someone you alledge is the same person (or otherwise) has said in another thread in another forum simply isnt relevant to THIS thread, expecting me to go chasing over the internet because YOU have decided to comment on what someone has said in another place simply isnt a reasonable thing to do.

I suggest you read the first post to find out what this thread is actually about, and if you decide you wish to post on THIS topic then please do.

What you, and others from other forums, dont seem to get is I (and others) dont give a damn about XMRV,HGRV or whatever it's called this week, even if it was to pan out any treatment will come too late for us, our lives are gone. We do however care that somone has believed us, that they have tried to help, and we dont care to see them personally attacked, ruined, accussed of fraud etc.

So you might want to rethink your approach, I, at least, am not "the other forum", I am not wedded to the HGRV hypothesis, I am not in denial that it's looking like a dead end, I dont care. I do care about peolpe trying to ruin anyone who tries to help me.

 

[Lou]

Nice going, Wonko, you must feel like you've run a marathon. Don't think the guy's gonna ever get it, though, it's late in England, maybe you should get some sleep.

 

[Wonko]

I did a run snickers 3 years ago (much better suited to pwME being only five inches long) if thats any help

 

[Wonko]

It's HIGHLY relevant because he/she posted the EXACT SAME TEXT on the other forum. Please.

It's totally clear vgt33 felt he/she could speak more freely on the other forum and decided to state that about Mikovits' research above THE EXACT SAME text he/she poster here. Don't give me the irrelevant card, just because you can't admit it.

it's not, it might be relevant if you were posting in that thread on the other forum, but here...no

(I've got all night, there's nothing on the TV, it's too hot to sleep, I'm bored and TBH the level of argument is hardly enough to stretch even my "not suffering from any known disease" brain - and I may be a little narked)

 

[FancyMyBlood]

it's not, it might be relevant if you were posting in that thread on the other forum, but here...no

So wait, I can't discuss the intentions someone clearly stated on the other forum just because it wasn't stated here?

Ok, with your logic it's impossible to ask Judy (just for examples sake) a question at a next conference about a statement she made at another conference. Or if ERV decides to join this forum (I hope not) we can't discuss on this forum what she said in her blog posts. Your logic is seriously flawed.

 

[Wonko]

of course you can, in an appropriate thread.

to use your example it would be inappropriate to ask Judy to pass you a biscuit in the questions section of a presentation but perfectly fine during a break (assuming she was located closer than you to the biscuits lol)

If you want to attack the papers or discuss the "revelations" then there are several threads here to do so.

 

[FancyMyBlood]

of course you can, in an appropriate thread.

Sigh, this is the appropriate thread because it's the EXACT SAME comment she posted on the other forum. But here he/she doesn't list his/her real intentions. I think it's only fair to comment on that.

He/she titled her thread on the other forum Comment Defending HGRV Research - Need Feedback for christ sake. And now you're trying to say his/her text has nothing to do with the HGRV hypothesis/HGRV research?!

 

[Wonko]

Yep

read it, here, THIS thread, not the other one you are so fond of quoting, again I have to ask if your so involved with the contents ot that thread why artent you postign on that one rather than this one?

BTW my logic cannot be seriously flawed as I have just had a medical that says cognitively and psychiatrically i am in perfect health - can you say the same? (unfortunately my ability to spell was n't checked, apart tfrom the abilty to spell "world" backwards, which according to the recording I got wrong, but as the doctor apparently also couldnt spell "world" backwards" that didnt get noticed)

(Yipee - over 500 posts, can I get to 1000 on this thread?)

 

[FancyMyBlood]

Yep

read it, here, THIS thread, not the other one you are so fond of quoting, again I have to ask if your so involved with the contents ot that thread why artent you postign on that one rather than this one?

(Yipee - over 500 posts, can I get to 1000 on this thread?)

First of foremost because I'll never post on that forum again. But also because he/she listed her real intentions in the title/text of that thread on the other forum, but didn't do that here. So there seems to be a specific reason why he/she chooses to omit that critical text here. And since we now have established that this text is intented to be about HGRV research I believe it's based on fallacious arguments. I hope I'm clear enough now

Congrats on the post count.

 

[Wonko]

"We" havent established any such thing - I'm hope your not publishing any papers? Given that you seem to keen on them being perfect.

Anyway

JM, associates, good thing to totally ruin them? or bad? How do you feel?

 

[Wonko]

hmmm.....after scanning your post history it seems I may owe you an apology, tho I am still puzzled by why you are adopting exactly the same arguements and personal attacks against those who have tried to help us as the bad science mob it seems you are not one of them - which leaves me at rather a loss.

Whilst I still dont agree with you, in fact I strongly object, I sincerely apologise for my tone and approach in this thread, if I'd of realised you were "one of us" rather than "one of them" I wouldnt have behaved in the manner I have.

If you find any of my posts particularly offensive let me know and I will delete them

 

[FancyMyBlood]

"We" havent established any such thing - I'm hope your not publishing any papers? Given that you seem to keen on them being perfect.

Anyway

JM, associates, good thing to totally ruin them? or bad? How do you feel?

Well the OP states him/herself it's also about the research.

How I feel about ruining JM and associates? That's a difficult question, if it turns out to be because of fraudulent research, well I think it's justified. For ME/CFS research in general this is not a good thing of course. But the other option, continueing fraudulent research is far worse. But the jury is still out on this one, so I'll await the investigations. That being said, even if this nightmare scenario turns out to be true, I'm still thankful to Mikovits for bringing attention to ME/CFS. But that's just the pragmatic me wanting a cure for the horrible illness.

 

[Wonko]

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...ter-and-Others&p=210734&viewfull=1#post210734