Different forms l-carnitine

[L'engle]

This is already with l carnitine 1 day on and 3 days off! I've had 2 out of 4 nights with only 3 hours of sleep each, and I took it 4 days ago.

 

[adreno]

This is already with l carnitine 1 day on and 3 days off! I've had 2 out of 4 nights with only 3 hours of sleep each, and I took it 4 days ago.

Freddd has written about hypersensitivity towards LC. Maybe you could get the liquid version and follow his titration protocol. Just a thought.

 

[Sallysblooms]

I take Carniclear every day. I love it.

 

[L'engle]

Freddd has written about hypersensitivity towards LC. Maybe you could get the liquid version and follow his titration protocol. Just a thought.

I was taking it with no problems for several months, at amounts of 2000-3000mg a day. The intolerance developed after about 4 months. I've effectively been titrating down since then, and have got to 50mg in four days, but even this is too much. The benefits have been somewhat cumulative though, so I think I am possibly not deficient in l-carnitine anymore.

 

[Sallysblooms]

Carniclear is liquid. It is great to take just the right amount.

 

[RosieBee]

I was taking significant amounts of acetyl L-carnitine for the last couple of years; but tests keep coming back as low. So I have changed to L-carnitine fumarate, which I am tolerating well. I will be interested to see what uptake is like next time I have tests.

 

[Lotus97]

I've read that if you're supplementing with carnitine (I assume any type) that you also need to take alpha lipoic acid or the carnitine will do damage to your body over time (I forget the exact terminology). If you do supplement with ALA then you also need to take extra biotin because lipoic acid depletes biotin. Some supplement manufacturers even add biotin to their ALA and R lipoic acid supplements.

I was taking Dr.'s Best acetyl l carnitine for awhile and it didn't seem to do much, but I switched to Primaforce and I find it too stimulating. I should point out that Dr's Best I took in capsules and Primaforce I used a powder. I'm wondering if this affected the absorption. I've tried Dr.'s Best l carnitine fumarate at various times. I stopped initially because it gave me dry mouth. I started it again and it seemed too stimulating although there were other contributing factors. I recently started taking it again. I began at about a quarter of the capsule and worked my way up to half a capsule. When I take it now I feel stoned (ie very relaxed). I'm sure there's some synergy with my other supplements and medication, but I do notice this consistently when I take only the carnitine and nothing else.

GPLC also increases nitric oxide (NO) production which is why some bodybuilders take it and why it's included in human growth hormone (GH/HGH) boosting supplements. I haven't taken it yet, but I might try it later.

 

[Lotus97]

I think I have a theory why Acetyl L Carnitine didn't work for me in the past. I was taking Risperdal/Risperidone at the same time and Risperdal lowers dopamine (I think this is an oversimplification, but I don't understand the details) while Carnitine can raise dopamine.

I also found out the difference between L Carnitine Tartrate and L Carnitine Fumarate.

Tartaric acid is not a good idea. It is big time antagonist of malic acid and high enough levels can disrupt the malate shuffle in cells, not a good thing. I think Freddd is right in that fumarate is probably the best best.

Acetyl-carnitine is the best a penetrating the brain but for some may have the highest tendency towards overstimulation effects. It also partially inhibits T3 action at the nuclear hormone receptors in the brain and CNS.

L-carnitine and L-carnitine fumarate are similar in their reduction of T3 action at the receptor sites but in the periphery (unless I suppose your blood brain barrier is defective).

People who take Cytomel or similar T3 medications (probably also Armour) should be cautious on their doses of carnitine. As Freddd rightly points out it is very important to function properly, but I would recommend shooting for physiological levels of carnitine based on ATP and methylation status (methionine production) and the ambient level of the amino acid lysine. Some people have the methionine but not the lysine or ATP. What that dose is for a person will have to be experimented with a look for the appropriate clinical results on an individual basis I would imagine. ​

 

[Little Bluestem]

So how does one go about determining

physiological levels of carnitine based on ATP and methylation status (methionine production) and the ambient level of the amino acid lysine

?

 

[adreno]

So how does one go about determining
?

Methylation panel, amino acids panel?

 

[triffid113]

You’ll find that there are different types of L-carnitine. Because the chemical make-ups vary slightly some work better for specific functions than others:

• Acetyl-L-Carnitine- the acetyl group basically means a collection of acetyl acid. To put it simply the addition of it to the carnitine aids in good memory function and mental focus. As with other forms of L-carnitine it also increases energy
• L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate- tartrate, found in nature in some fruits, helps stabilize the L-carnitine. It’s also and effective antioxidant and some studies have shown it aids in more rapid muscle recovery after heavy stress
• L-Carnitine fumarate- especially good for both metabolizing fat and sending plenty of oxygen to the heart, both valuable properties for athletes
• D-Carnitine, D-L-Carnitine- only available synthetically and the FDA labels it as an illegal food additive
• Glycine Propionyl-L-Carnitine (GPLC) – especially good for muscles as it promotes strong blood flow to them and makes up for oxygen lost during workout. Enhances fat metabolism and waste removal from cells

http://www.n101.com/info/l-carnitine-guide-what-is-it-and-who-should-use-it/


I have been using acetyl carnitine for a few months at 500mg a day and it helps some. Today i increased this to 1000mg so we will see what happens??

What are other peoples experience with different forms of carnitine? I have seen a few favour fumarate, and im thinking of trying this as well later.

cheers!!!

There was a girl here who completely recovered from CFS through Fredd's protocol plus she took a high dose of l-carnitine fumarate from Drs. Best. She said only that form and only from one of two companies (I can't remember the other). carnitine from other companies did not work for her. She took something like 4-5g/day. She also had to take something for gut issues, and what worked for her was olive leaf extract+garlic+oil of oregano (not sure about that 3rd ingredient but I think that was it) in lower doses than me. (I take 1g/day olive leaf extract which takes care of gut issues for me all by itself...I think she takes something like 300mg but then has to also take the other herbal zappers). She said probiotics made it worse for her.

 

[Lotus97]

Yeah, I've tried both Fumarate and Tartrate. Even though Tartrate is a lot cheaper, Fumarate seems to work better for me too.

 

[ttt]

You’ll find that there are different types of L-carnitine. Because the chemical make-ups vary slightly some work better for specific functions than others:

• Acetyl-L-Carnitine- the acetyl group basically means a collection of acetyl acid. To put it simply the addition of it to the carnitine aids in good memory function and mental focus. As with other forms of L-carnitine it also increases energy
• L-Carnitine-L-Tartrate- tartrate, found in nature in some fruits, helps stabilize the L-carnitine. It’s also and effective antioxidant and some studies have shown it aids in more rapid muscle recovery after heavy stress
• L-Carnitine fumarate- especially good for both metabolizing fat and sending plenty of oxygen to the heart, both valuable properties for athletes
• D-Carnitine, D-L-Carnitine- only available synthetically and the FDA labels it as an illegal food additive
• Glycine Propionyl-L-Carnitine (GPLC) – especially good for muscles as it promotes strong blood flow to them and makes up for oxygen lost during workout. Enhances fat metabolism and waste removal from cells

I realize I'm over a year late to this conversation, but I hope someone will respond. Where does plain old L-Carnitine factor into this list?

 

[adreno]

I realize I'm over a year late to this conversation, but I hope someone will respond. Where does plain old L-Carnitine factor into this list?

L-carnitine is either bound to tartrate or fumarate.

 

[heapsreal]

L-carnitine is either bound to tartrate or fumarate.

is this different again to acetyl carnitine?

 

[adreno]

is this different again to acetyl carnitine?

I don't think it's bound to anything except the HCL.

 

[peggy-sue]

I have found some versions of carnitine to be no better than a chalk tablet.
I do have some of the Solgar Carnitine complex, but I don't use it regularly - it is FAR too expensive.

The only thing I have ever found even the expensive complex to be useful for is in preventing PEM, when I am in a situation of overdoings.

If I take a couple of 500mg tabs after an overdoing, on an empty tummy, then resting for a couple of hours, and I'm ready to go again. So it is useful for managing and coping with things like holidays.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Have you ever tried taking the carnitine before you overdo?

 

[peggy-sue]

Yes. It doesn't seem to make any difference then.
However, if I'm having a big overdoing - such as a weekend away to do something reallly special, I'll dose up on it beforehand, during and afterwards.

It's always when I take it after that it helps most.

I looked at exercise physiology to work out how best to take it.
I found out that when somebody does a lot of exercise, the body does not loose the weight of calories consumed by the energy immediately.
Following exercise, (during which the body uses up all available energy) the body goes into repair mode - "weight loss" continues for several hours afterwards as the body rebalances glucose and glycogen stores and builds muscle.

Bodybuilders need carbs to work out, then eat protein afterwards. That makes the body make proteins.

So it seems reasonable to me that after the overdoing is when the carnitine is needed.
Practise has told me that is correct.

Just for a simple example of an immediate help from it;
Last year I went to visit family abroad. I was struggling a lot with so much socialising - morning, noon and evening.

By 4 o'clock, I was just about done for the day. I'd take a couple of carnitines and have a cup of coffee and a lie down for a couple of hours - and I could get up and go for the evening!

Possibly not overly sensible to keep pushing like that, but what can you do?
You've got a short time there and loads of important friends and family to see.

Mostly, I just take it at night for a while before going away, during, and for a week or so after I get home.

It's the only way I can cope with trips without suffering too much from PEM.

I always take it on an empty tummy, and always rest straight afterwards.
I found out the trick about empty tummy because I saw carnitine being touted as a "weight loss pill"!

The instructions were to take it at night on an empty tummy - you "lost weight" while you slept... because of the carnitine promoting "fat burning".

But it got me checking and trying out empty or full tummy.

It works best on empty tummy.

 

[mml]

Wanted to thank you all on this forum. I was following a modified version of Dr. Robert's heartfixer.com protocol for my daughter's CBS up-regulation. Since she had severe chronic fatigue (and very low homocysteine) I checked this forum for advice on what type of carnitine to use. Someone above commented that a previous poster had had good results with Doctor's Best L-Carnitine Fumarate. In early March my daughter started taking 855 mg. every morning with 5 mg. of NADH when she woke up. The first week of April she was able to return to school. In mid-May she also added 500 mg. of pantothetic acid (Jarrow). By the end of May she had most of her energy back and in mid-June she left for an intensive summer program. She is doing just fine! She has recovered her energy and is able to eat a wider range of foods again. And she is now taking 400 mcg. of methylfolate (she is heterozygous for MTHFR) along with her other supplements. I hope to be able to take her off l-carnitine and NADH soon. So thank you all for posting your experiences. I learned a lot!