DHT - dihydrotestosterone

knackers323

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I’ve been taking the DHT based steroid proviron and feeling much better.

Regular non DHT steroids have not had the same effect

The benefits are pretty impressive so I’m wondering if it’s just the standard effects from altering hormone levels that is having the impact or it’s some other mechanism

As CFS, and to my knowledge, autoimmune diseases in general effect women more than men, I’m thinking that the male hormone DHT might be having some effect on a possible autoimmune process

Anyone aware of the role of DHT in autoimmune illnesses?

@Hip you aware of anything?

Has anyone else tried proviron or similar?
 

Wishful

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Please let us know if it continues to work after couple of weeks. Some of us have had beneficial responses to prednisone or other steroids, but they stopped working after the first course or two. I had effective remissions the first two courses of prednisone, but I tried it twice after that with no noticeable effect.

Unexpectedly, cumin seed had the same effect as prednisone (after my doctor wouldn't prescribe any more), but that stopped working too after a week or so.
 

heapsreal

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I’ve been taking the DHT based steroid proviron and feeling much better.

Regular non DHT steroids have not had the same effect

The benefits are pretty impressive so I’m wondering if it’s just the standard effects from altering hormone levels that is having the impact or it’s some other mechanism

As CFS, and to my knowledge, autoimmune diseases in general effect women more than men, I’m thinking that the male hormone DHT might be having some effect on a possible autoimmune process

Anyone aware of the role of DHT in autoimmune illnesses?

@Hip you aware of anything?

Has anyone else tried proviron or similar?
What dose of proviron you taking? Its well known for increasing free testosterone levels for guys already on testosterone replacement therapy plus TRT theres always some conversion to dht.

Non dht based steroids for guys i think can maybe help someone with anxiety or they can make others lethargic after 4 to 6 weeks like deca/ nandrolone.

Testosterone itself can be energising through dht but also through dopamine pathways which than effects adrenaline/noradrenaline. Not sure if dht has an effect on dopamine but possible.
 

Hip

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From what I can make out from the Wikipedia article, I don't think mesterolone (Proviron) specifically acts on the dihydrotestosterone (DHT) system. The hormones DHT and testosterone both activate the androgen receptor (AR), which is their biological target, but DHT more potently activates the AR than testosterone.

So mesterolone is just another compound that activates the AR.


Have you tried any other testosterone increasing protocols, such as the herb Tribulus terrestris, which is thought to raise testosterone? Or testosterone replacement therapy? Then you could compare the effects to those of mesterolone.

If your testosterone levels are low, then testosterone replacement (and presumably mesterolone as well), will have a mood-boosting, motivation-boosting and energizing effect. Men in their 40s often find their motivation and mood flagging because of lower testosterone (testosterone levels decline by about 1% to 3% a year after around 40).


Are you noticing any aggression side effects? I find testosterone-boosters like Tribulus terrestris do boost mood, but also have the side effect of making me short-tempered and generally always feeling angry, which is not a nice mental state, so for that reason I rarely use Tribulus terrestris.
 
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heapsreal

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@Hip ive never got much out of test boosters. Explanation i saw was that if someone low T increased their T levels by 50%, its not significant to do a great deal eg T level of 250 would go up to 375 so still in the low normal range.

Id say my mood on TRT and having levels in the high range like 900 to 1000 improves mood, no anger if anything you become more assertive, more resistent to stress. A number of guys ive read about say the roid rage thing rarely occurs, its just makes normal dickheads, bigger dickheads lol. Trenbolone is different from what ive read but then again its only been approved for cattle.

Big lesson is to stick with approved steroids for humans and use them in doses used for hormone replacement. It seems many of the TRT clinics in america use testosterone and a few other will add a low dose of deca/nandrolone as it has joint and muscle repairing and pain relieving effects and for cfsers can improve immune function. Total dose of a single drug or combination is usually limited to max of 250mg per week.
 

junkcrap50

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I’ve been taking the DHT based steroid proviron and feeling much better.
How do you get the drug Proviron? Are you outside the US? It's illegal in the US.

What dose of proviron you taking? Its well known for increasing free testosterone levels for guys already on testosterone replacement therapy plus TRT theres always some conversion to dht.
It raises free testosterone because it lowers and binds to SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin), which binds to and consumes testosterone, lowering free testosterone levels.
 
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I know testosterone suppresses the immune system. And I also know that DHT is like super testosterone (potency estimates range from 3-20 times as strong as regular test, but most bioassays tend to be within the 5-10x range). So knowing this, I’d assume that it would have a greater immunosuppressant effect. The only thing that I’m aware of that it can’t do that testosterone does is, DHT cannot bind to the muscles. It gets broken down by 3alpha-HSD before it can reach the muscle, which is sad because then we’d all be super strong right now haha. A lot of pro bodybuilders take 5alpha-reductase inhibitors to stop the conversion of test to DHT, and some have noticed that while they gain more muscle, they also conversely lose strength. I believe this is because DHT enhances the nerves in the neuromuscular system. These are just anecdotal observations though, they haven’t been studied in a controlled setting (likely due to ethical and monetary reasons lol).
 
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How do you get the drug Proviron? Are you outside the US? It's illegal in the US.
Just because it’s illegal here in the States does not mean you can’t get it. Here’s a website that I found after Googling “buy proviron”:
https://www.buyonlineventolin.com/h...-25-mg-20-tablets-ingredient-mesterolone.html
Here’s another one:
https://steroid-pharm.com/proviron.html
And another:
https://valkyrie-online.net/mr-proviron-25
This one looks like it has the best deal though:
https://www.cobraintpharmacy.com/product/proviron-mesterolone-25-mg-x-20-pills-per-package/
These guys talk about other stuff related to it too if you’d like to give it a go:
https://www.isarms.com/forums/source-talk/best-source-proviron-13190.html
 

heapsreal

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know testosterone suppresses the immune system.
Read up about testosterone and nandrolone on hiv patients. You will gind it increases immune function and there is a study somewhere showing ot increasing nk function in hiv patients.

When hormones/steroids are mentioned about being no good for immune system, its generally referring to referring to catabolic steroids like prednisone, so totally different steroids to testosterone or Deca durabolin.

Built to survive, is a book about anabolic steroids on hiv patients isxworth a read.
 
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Read up about testosterone and nandrolone on hiv patients. You will gind it increases immune function and there is a study somewhere showing ot increasing nk function in hiv patients.

When hormones/steroids are mentioned about being no good for immune system, its generally referring to referring to catabolic steroids like prednisone, so totally different steroids to testosterone or Deca durabolin.

Built to survive, is a book about anabolic steroids on hiv patients isxworth a read.
Testosterone suppressed the immune system. We just don’t know how. Cortisol ALSO suppresses the immune system, which is why corticoSTEROIDS have that effect.

Here’s just one study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25708485/
 
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They found enhanced NK cell activity and ability to make more B-cells. But they also saw that the most significant difference in the entire study was that immunoglobulin levels (antibodies) were markedly lower, which just further shows suppressed immune response.

That just means that NK activity could very well be explained due to the lack of immunoglobulin (antibodies aren’t doing their job, therefore other immune cells need to work harder), and the B-cell proliferative enhancements are likely due to the same exact reason (B-cells produce antibodies; if there aren’t enough antibodies, produce more B-cells to produce more antibodies).
 

Hd-x

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I found an interesting study comparing Testosterone vs. Deca in HIV/HAART treatment, but I am not able to translate what those n / mean(sd) values mean.

@heapsreal
Can you or someone perhaps translate in simple words the results?
(table 1 start point - table 4 end point)
hv-study.jpg
Did the CD4/CD8 cell count increase or decrease under Deca or Testo treatment?
 

heapsreal

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They found enhanced NK cell activity and ability to make more B-cells. But they also saw that the most significant difference in the entire study was that immunoglobulin levels (antibodies) were markedly lower, which just further shows suppressed immune response.

That just means that NK activity could very well be explained due to the lack of immunoglobulin (antibodies aren’t doing their job, therefore other immune cells need to work harder), and the B-cell proliferative enhancements are likely due to the same exact reason (B-cells produce antibodies; if there aren’t enough antibodies, produce more B-cells to produce more antibodies).
All i can tell you is my quality of life has improved as well as my exercise tolerance and recovery are much better on testosterone. I havent had my immunoglobulins tested for awhile but my low neutrophils have come up to normal and my elevated t cell counts came down alot with antivirals but not completely until i went on trt.

I think probably a big difference in just taking testosterone or taking it to treat a deficiency.
Cfs/me i feel is a catabolic disease, so improve nitrogen retention and anabolism is cfsme is a positive thing. It doesnt make sense to stay in a low hormonal state that would worsen a catabolic condition.
 

pattismith

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They found enhanced NK cell activity and ability to make more B-cells. But they also saw that the most significant difference in the entire study was that immunoglobulin levels (antibodies) were markedly lower, which just further shows suppressed immune response.
Less antibodies may involves less autoimmune response, which could be interesting for us as well.

Furthermore, the anabolic effect of Testosterone has positive effect on red blood cells production (and therefor on oxygen transport) and on collagen. It also improves muscle tone.

Since I started testosterone supplementation some weeks ago, my upper spine problems disappeared quickly and I don't need anymore physio to keep my vertebrae from slipping.
When I felt my neck and dorsal vertebrae started to hurt once, it was because I had lowered the dosage too much, and it disappeared when I increased it again.

I think that collagen issue and muscle tone are among our problems and that we need to optimise our hormon levels to face it.