DHEA

[heapsreal]

My CFS Physician is trying to slow down my metabolic rate as I was just diagnosed with Diastolic Dysfunction. Would the Pregnenolone speed it up? I also have just started on an Adrenal supplement INNATE Adrenal Response. I am down to 1/2 tab on this as it makes me really jittery.Thanks Heaps-This is the most informative website I have been on for this Disease.

I would think it may increase your heart rate but it may also increase your hearts ability to contract better which would be a good thing. For you all i can say is talk to your doc about it before you try it. If you had testing done on all your hormones and treated the defiencies to get you back up to normal levels, you would think that would be good for you. I hope your doc is up with this stuff or find another doc who is knowledgable in these types of hormones.

 

[heapsreal]

I'm probably missing some key pieces here but I'm confused as to why slowing down your metabolic rate would help with diastolic dysfunction? Maybe your heart wouldn't beat as frequently in the present but that approach would seem to make you even sicker in the long run? You don't have to explain this to me at all so long as you feel comfortable with your treatment plan and long term goals.

You're not taking any statins, are you? Statins are well known to contribute to diastolic dysfunction (as well as pain and other symptoms).




I am not a fan of what I refer to as "kitchen-sink" adrenal formulas. It's like the company got together every single herbal ingredient that has ever been shown to affect adrenals and threw it all together without much thought about anything other than profit.

It's what most everyone (myself included) gets started on and it rarely ever seems to help any but those with the very mildest adrenal issues.

For example, the Innate formula contains the following:
SOURCE; FOODSTATE® AMOUNT
Sensoril ®*** (Ashwaganda Root) - adaptogen, can lower or raise cortisol, may help with thyroid as well
(Withania somnifera) 200 mg
Rhodiola extract (Rhodiola rosea) - adaptogen, can lower or raise cortisol
10:1 (1% rosavins) 200 mg
Astragalus Root - adaptogen, can lower or raise cortisol
(Astragalus membranaceus) 4:1 150 mg
American Ginseng Root -- stimulating to adrenals; produce more cortisol
(Panax quinquefolius) 4:1 100 mg
Sacred Basil (Ocimum sanctum) 10:1 100 mg - reduces cortisol powerfully, lowers cortisol levels
Schizandra Berry (Schisandra chinensis) 4:1 100 mg - adaptogen, can lower or raise cortisol

ADDITIONAL FOODS & EXTRACTS
Indian Gooseberry, Amla 5:1 100 mg - reduces cortisol
Seaweed-Laminaria digitata, and - I can only presume this is included for iodine/thyroid function though iodine may actually provoke autoimmune attacks in those with Hashimoto's (the most common type of thyroid disease)
Ascophyllum nodosum 45 mg - Kelp is likely also included for iodine.

No wonder your body is confused! Herbs to stimulate cortisol, reduce cortisol and provoke your thyroid. I'm confused just reading the formula. Unfortunately it is typical.

If you have low cortisol, why would you want to take a formula that contains an ingredient that will further lower it? If you have high cortisol, why would you want to take an ingredient that will raise it (all while the adaptogens cancel everything out??)?

This is not to say those ingredients are bad, per se. Just how do you know what is doing what?

Have you had a saliva cortisol test to see what your levels actually are doing throughout the day?

Some of those type of formulas can be confusing, i think it depends what stage of adrenal fatigue, early stages cortisol can be high and later stages it can be low. Also sometimes it just inappropriate cortisol release ie suppose to have high cortisol in the morning and it slowly decline at night, for some its low throughout the day and high at night which can cause insomnia. DHEA can initially be high and then start to drop, then you lose dhea's protective effects against cortisol. Best thing to do is to get all your hormones checked and supplement from there.

 

[SanDiego#1]

I'm probably missing some key pieces here but I'm confused as to why slowing down your metabolic rate would help with diastolic dysfunction? Maybe your heart wouldn't beat as frequently in the present but that approach would seem to make you even sicker in the long run? You don't have to explain this to me at all so long as you feel comfortable with your treatment plan and long term goals.

You're not taking any statins, are you? Statins are well known to contribute to diastolic dysfunction (as well as pain and other symptoms).




I am not a fan of what I refer to as "kitchen-sink" adrenal formulas. It's like the company got together every single herbal ingredient that has ever been shown to affect adrenals and threw it all together without much thought about anything other than profit.

It's what most everyone (myself included) gets started on and it rarely ever seems to help any but those with the very mildest adrenal issues.

For example, the Innate formula contains the following:
SOURCE; FOODSTATE® AMOUNT
Sensoril ®*** (Ashwaganda Root) - adaptogen, can lower or raise cortisol, may help with thyroid as well
(Withania somnifera) 200 mg
Rhodiola extract (Rhodiola rosea) - adaptogen, can lower or raise cortisol
10:1 (1% rosavins) 200 mg
Astragalus Root - adaptogen, can lower or raise cortisol
(Astragalus membranaceus) 4:1 150 mg
American Ginseng Root -- stimulating to adrenals; produce more cortisol
(Panax quinquefolius) 4:1 100 mg
Sacred Basil (Ocimum sanctum) 10:1 100 mg - reduces cortisol powerfully, lowers cortisol levels
Schizandra Berry (Schisandra chinensis) 4:1 100 mg - adaptogen, can lower or raise cortisol

ADDITIONAL FOODS & EXTRACTS
Indian Gooseberry, Amla 5:1 100 mg - reduces cortisol
Seaweed-Laminaria digitata, and - I can only presume this is included for iodine/thyroid function though iodine may actually provoke autoimmune attacks in those with Hashimoto's (the most common type of thyroid disease)
Ascophyllum nodosum 45 mg - Kelp is likely also included for iodine.

No wonder your body is confused! Herbs to stimulate cortisol, reduce cortisol and provoke your thyroid. I'm confused just reading the formula. Unfortunately it is typical.

If you have low cortisol, why would you want to take a formula that contains an ingredient that will further lower it? If you have high cortisol, why would you want to take an ingredient that will raise it (all while the adaptogens cancel everything out??)?

This is not to say those ingredients are bad, per se. Just how do you know what is doing what?

Have you had a saliva cortisol test to see what your levels actually are doing throughout the day?

I am sorry, I had already posted on another thread that I was just diagnosed with Diostolic Dysfunction. Severe. That is why my Physician is trying to slow down my Metabolic rate. I also have POTS. Before this diagnosis, my Adrenals were almost non existent. I was dizzy and almost to the point of fainting with Tacycardia and breathing problems.
I knew something was seriously wrong as I have always been able to come back and do mild exercise and this really scared me. I was actually started on different Adrenal supplement right before finally being diagnosed with Diostolic Dysfunction. Saw 3 Cardiologist and even had Heart Cath ,no one could find it. Finally went to my CFID Physician who is far away and he caught it immediately after two days of testing on an new EchoCardiogram machine.I am confused also!!!!

 

[SanDiego#1]

I am sorry, I had already posted on another thread that I was just diagnosed with Diostolic Dysfunction. Severe. That is why my Physician is trying to slow down my Metabolic rate. I also have POTS. Before this diagnosis, my Adrenals were almost non existent. I was dizzy and almost to the point of fainting with Tacycardia and breathing problems.
I knew something was seriously wrong as I have always been able to come back and do mild exercise and this really scared me. I was actually started on different Adrenal supplement right before finally being diagnosed with Diostolic Dysfunction. Saw 3 Cardiologist and even had Heart Cath ,no one could find it. Finally went to my CFID Physician who is far away and he caught it immediately after two days of testing on an new EchoCardiogram machine.I am confused also!!!!

Not taking any Statins - My blood pressure is very low and statins would knock me out. One Cardiologist wanted me to take Byostolic-this without any testing but an EKG. I can't have my BP drop any lower. He never gave me a diag.

 

[August59]

Testing, Testing and more Testing is a must if you ae going to get into balancing hormones mainly because they can directly or indirectly affect several other hormones or glands.

There are more than one study that shows when DHEA is taken by middle aged men that it primarily converts to estrogen, instead of testosterone. While I do believe these studies to be completely accurate I have specific reservations to people ME/CFS. These studies always take a shotgun approach as in "These subjects are already low in DHEA, so lets give them 200mg a day and recheck in 4 weeks to see if the levels are back within nornal ranges"

With us having ME/CFS and more than likely living a limited activity lifestyle I can certainly see where a starting dose of 50 or 100mg is going to probably convert to estrogen instead of testosterone. The other thing is all of us are not trying to raise our testosterone and estrogen levels as we just trying to balance our adrenal hormones to try to keep the correct synergies going with cortisol, possibly aldosterone and thyroid gland and hormones.

So as heapsreal has stated and we have heard it all before "Start low and go slow", but we have to add testing in here.

If you live in the US and can't get your doctor to order these labs. You can go to Private MD Labs or Labs MD and order them online at pretty steep discounts. There must be a loop hole in the laws in Tennessee that allows them to do this because they have a legitimate doctor order these labs through LabCorp and you just go to your closet LabCorp draw center and have it done and you will get your results faxed to you on a typical LabCorp results sheet. I would strongly suggest having hormone labs done at large major Labs, such as: LabCorp, Quest, Spectrum and there is a couple of more (I'm not including saliva cortisol here). If you are getting testosterone checked use only LabCorp or Quest (I'll get into this in another post if anyone is curious). If men are getting E2 or Estradiol checked always ask for the Sensitive, Ultrasensitive or something similar.

My eyes are crossing, so it is bedtime!!

 

[heapsreal]

Just on E2(estrogen) in men, i was one who when taking dhea it converted to a high level of E2, now i also used a med to counteract this but as i got my weight/fat came down i know longer needed to worry about meds for E2. The enzyme in men that causes this is produced in fat cells, those ones around the midrift, so loosing weight can help to handle this. Also lowering E2 with meds did also help me to loose weight, not on its own but helped me with a good diet low in carbs etc.

Extra weight in men and women has an effect on hormones, its a horse or the cart things as well, also insulin sensitivity plays a big part and worth googling if trying to loose weight and sort hormones out.

 

[SanDiego#1]

I would think it may increase your heart rate but it may also increase your hearts ability to contract better which would be a good thing. For you all i can say is talk to your doc about it before you try it. If you had testing done on all your hormones and treated the defiencies to get you back up to normal levels, you would think that would be good for you. I hope your doc is up with this stuff or find another doc who is knowledgable in these types of hormones.

My Heart was overworking and my Cardiac output is the lowest in my CFID'S Physician's Practice. Doesn't know how I am walking around. I was walking 1 hour a day and doing Yoga in August 2011. He said I had adapted. I had at this time been under severe stress . However when I started having breathing problems-I knew someone was missing something. Magnesium injections and oral Magnesium have helped heart racing. I am using Iceland Springs high Alkaline water only.I am in the process now of having tests done to evaluate everything again. Last tests were done in Feb 2012 by Environmental Dr. Not as in depth as my CFID Physician wants now. We, I think are putting the CART before the HORSE AS THE NEXT TESTS WILL BE A BASELINE AFTER THE MEDS WERE STARTED. I am seeing a prominent CFID Specialist. However took me 5 month to get in. I am going to investigate labs suggested . The other tests are going to run me $1500.00 at lab and then more to get a reading from Specialist. All of this is very stressful, which certainly doesn't help my Cardiac Condition. CFID Specialist said to stay on DHEA at 5-10 mg and he
increased my Hydroxycobalamine, and Immune Globulin. I think I am going to drop the adrenal supplement for now.
Any other suggestions-LAY THEM ON ME!!!!! All have helped me think clearer about this!!!!!
Thank all of you!!!!!!!

 

[Little Bluestem]

you just go to your closet LabCorp draw center and have it done and you will get your results faxed to you on a typical LabCorp results sheet.

Would that be "closest LabCorp draw center"?

 

[SanDiego#1]

I am using Vitamin Diag Labs for my next set of comprehensive labs. I used Lab Corp and Quest for my Cortisol Saliva test before. This is when I discovered my Adrenals were deficient.

 

[Don Quixote]

Does anyone know if topical DHEA cream would be helpful for a small umbilical hernia? I got it from weightlifting, and it's still very minor.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

"I am not a fan of what I refer to as "kitchen-sink" adrenal formulas.
It's like the company got together every single herbal ingredient that has ever been shown to affect adrenals and threw it all together without much thought about anything other than profit."​

I used close to those exact same words in a different thread, regarding ALL multi-ingredient 'treatment' supplements a few months ago, tho specifically referencing probiotics if I'm remembering correctly , so I totally, totally agree with that statement ....

Just a few of the other problems, tho there are many, are:

• If it has a beneficial effect, you have no idea which part, or parts, of it were the primary contributors to that improvement ...
• If it makes you feel like crap, you again have no idea which constituent caused that, and you'll spend a lot of time and effort avoiding absolutely every ingredient in it as a result, and possibly miss out on something that, as a stand-alone, might be helpful.
• Due to the enormous number of ingredients that are thrown together in one product (hence our references to 'kitchen sink' compounds) in the manufacturer's usually empty hope that something will effect some sort of benefit, nothing is in large enough amounts to really do any good, tho in the perverse logic of the universe, a small amount of something that causes harm to the user can often cause a LOT of it ....
• .... which brings us back to the second bullet point: you won't know which of the 25 or 30 ingredients did that ...

I think that goes double for compound supplements aimed at treating something as complex and potentially touchy as the adrenals.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Does anyone know if topical DHEA cream would be helpful for a small umbilical hernia? I got it from weightlifting, and it's still very minor.

I don't think it would do any harm, being a small amount and topically applied, but I'm as far from an expert as you can get and still be in the homo erectus family .....

I do know that DHEA, depending on the potency, can have some startling effects, both good and not so ....

Hopefully someone with some first hand experience and knowledge will post some reliable input for you ..... I added my post here largely for the purpose of moving this thread closer to the top of the heap, making it more immediately visible to anyone browsing ....