DEEP BREATHING = BAD .. WHY?? anyone else have this??

[Quirky]

Little Bluestem,
What I forgot to say is that exercise is exactly what jassysan is trying to achieve with lying down with low breath. Only much more effective. MUCH more.

You can start slowly if you are exhausted. Let's say do 3 minutes the first time, then go up to 5 etc... until you reach the 11 minutes at one go.
You could start with 4 minutes three times a day to get used to it.
The point is : something only happens after the body is used to the rhythm and secure in it. You do not get the hormonal effects if you stop at 3 minutes. But if you are too weak to go on, you are still teaching the body to do this, so there is an effect, you ARE regaining ground. If you start with shorter timings, it is a start and you will soon get it right.

Once you can do it 11 minutes at one go, you can do it several times a day. But not just after eating. Time of day does not otherwise matter.
This is something you should do every day at least once. Commit yourself for 40 days. If you miss one day, start again counting from day one.
This is teaching new ways to your brain and body, it is also a kind of training. You will notice it will influence your breath in the rest of the day and the night (then it happens but you don't notice it!). This is a very small thing with very subtle results.

After a couple of weeks it is a good idea to change the line you are singing. This changes the movements of the jaw and hits of the tongue. I forgot to say : choose a nice line, not something gloomy!

Good luck!
Asklipia

To retierate, all I have to do is to sing "DO RE MI FA SOL LA SI DO" start for one minute then increase to 15 mins over a period
of months?

 

[Quirky]

peggy-sue,
Yoga breathing is very powerful. More so of course if you have good lungs! There are more than hundreds of yoga breathing exercises, all of them with precise results. The problem is, if you go to a class, most of the time the instructor has no idea of what the effect of the breathing exercises is, because most yoga traditions keep this secret. There is a good reason for this : since breathing exercises alter the balance of the blood, it is not a good idea to do them if you do not do them EVERY DAY!!!! You cannot do them once a week. Not good. I would even say that it is unsettling and violent for people who have health problems. It has to be REGULAR.

This is why people like Iyengar do not include pranayama in their normal schedule, even though he personally practices it and wrote a book about it. Not that pranayama (breath control) is not an important part of yoga, but because they know that people coming to classes do not have a regular home practice. Hence, teaching them breathing exercises is not a good idea.

Alternate nostril breathing is called "nadi shodhna", which means "cleaning of the nadis". The nicer lungs you have, the better it works! I know that most people believe in "energy" and "spiritual" healing etc... But the truth is that all the nadi shodhna exercises are meant to move lymph around and to expel toxins trough the lungs. So if this made you hot and sweaty, it is more than normal, it is the desired effect!!!!! People with chicken lungs only get an effect after 6 months!!! I can tell you this because I swam one kilometer every morning for the first 40 years of my life and my lungs are fine. Any pranayama exercise I do has an extraordinary effect on me. This is what saved me in fact. My fine lungs and my love of my life-companion. I could not walk, but I could still swim and I could still breathe. So i started from there.
Be well!
Asklipia

I tried yoga breathing, it worsened my symptoms. The "teacher" advised those with cardiac symptoms, hyperventilation etc..
not to do certain types of breathing including nadi shodhna. I am glad it worked for you though.

 

[Asklipia]

Quirky,
"yoga breathing" : there are hundreds of yoga breathing exercises, all with different results.
If your instructor does not know what, or is unwilling to take responsibility, fine. No pain, no gain.

What I used is described in my post #7 of this thread:

Sit on a hard chair so that your back is as straight as you can (no effort, just do what you can). Put a timer nearby on 11 minutes.
Choose a string of words that have to be articulated (for example a line of a song with music).
Take a breath and immediately (no breath retention) sing your line over and over again without taking in any air between the repetitions. No need to shout, but be sure to articulate very well, in an exaggerated way, even making faces. You will find that after a few times you will be able to keep a steady rhythm (let's say sing the line 3/4/5 times depending on the length of your line).
The aim is to find a number of times which is comfortable, do not make an effort. And to keep it regular after that. Your body knows best.
When you are out of breath, take another breath in and sing again.

After a couple of minutes you will find the hormones kicking in : more saliva is the sign (you can swallow no problem). This means the brain is activating the hormonal axis, and not only the saliva but all other fluids are increasing (parasympathetic effect too). This is due to the combination of hitting the palate with the tongue, massaging the thyroid by articulating well, AND the Bohr effect.

The first times, you may sweat, feel dizzy. If so, stop and lay down for at least 7 minutes. Then start again so that you complete your 11 minutes.
You may feel pins and needles and lose feeling on parts of your body. That is no problem, just go on.

When you have done your 11 minutes, stretch your arms over your head and shake them, have a good general shake. Then you MUST lay down for 7 minutes minimum. Even if you do not feel tired. This is when you will feel the hormones circulating in your body. If you are attentive, you will definitely feel something going on. And you will feel when it is done too.

Good luck.

 

[Quirky]

Quirky,
"yoga breathing" : there are hundreds of yoga breathing exercises, all with different results.
If your instructor does not know what, or is unwilling to take responsibility, fine. No pain, no gain.

What I used is described in my post #7 of this thread:

Sit on a hard chair so that your back is as straight as you can (no effort, just do what you can). Put a timer nearby on 11 minutes.
Choose a string of words that have to be articulated (for example a line of a song with music).
Take a breath and immediately (no breath retention) sing your line over and over again without taking in any air between the repetitions. No need to shout, but be sure to articulate very well, in an exaggerated way, even making faces. You will find that after a few times you will be able to keep a steady rhythm (let's say sing the line 3/4/5 times depending on the length of your line).
The aim is to find a number of times which is comfortable, do not make an effort. And to keep it regular after that. Your body knows best.
When you are out of breath, take another breath in and sing again.

After a couple of minutes you will find the hormones kicking in : more saliva is the sign (you can swallow no problem). This means the brain is activating the hormonal axis, and not only the saliva but all other fluids are increasing (parasympathetic effect too). This is due to the combination of hitting the palate with the tongue, massaging the thyroid by articulating well, AND the Bohr effect.

The first times, you may sweat, feel dizzy. If so, stop and lay down for at least 7 minutes. Then start again so that you complete your 11 minutes.
You may feel pins and needles and lose feeling on parts of your body. That is no problem, just go on.

When you have done your 11 minutes, stretch your arms over your head and shake them, have a good general shake. Then you MUST lay down for 7 minutes minimum. Even if you do not feel tired. This is when you will feel the hormones circulating in your body. If you are attentive, you will definitely feel something going on. And you will feel when it is done too.

Good luck.

My Yoga teacher, electrophysiologist, Qi Gong Masters, Yoga Masters, all recognize that there are certain conditions for
which this type of breathing and other are contraindicated for certain health conditions. I suffer from some of them,
and must avoid some breathing methods. Feeling dizzy, and faint like is a warning, IMHO.

There are several published papers on breathing mechanism which are worth looking at.

There is another famous Yogi teacher called Ramdev. I contacted him and await for
his response. He too advocates breathing and yoga, however, its not for everyone.

Likewise for Qi Gong, some have reported benefits, others worsening of their sympoms.
I don't think we understand fully the effects of certain of breathing, but should certainly
listen to our own in built warning system, as well as enforcing what are contra indicated.

Science may well find out why some worsen with those symptoms in many years from now,
meanwhile, I am not a believer is no pain no gain.

Thanks for sharing about the exercise, I will give it a whirl, but will not continue if
my symptoms continue, or worsen.

 

[peggy-sue]

I did find yoga wonderful physically - and I did practise every day at home.
I also worked out that the breathing during the movements (it was Vimi Yoga we practised) put the body into aerobic metabolism - which is why yoga builds strength and stamina.
But I was doing the physiology science in my head, not meditation.
I could not get into the meditation or breathing exercises at all - I HATED those parts of it.

 

[xchocoholic]

For those of us with orthostatic intolerance, the problem may only exist when you're upright, and for some of us, this may not show up until after you've been upright for awhile.

This is your upper body being deprived if everything blood brings with it and carries away.

My shoulders and neck muscles will eventually go limp on me too. My whole upper body is affected tho.

Dr peckerman explains the effects of hypoperfusion on our bodies in an article I posted here on pr.

I still have to lay down for a solid hour if I've been up too long and got my heart racing (pots) in order to deep breath consistently without feeling pressure in my lungs. But my breathing is perfectly normal after I've been down for an hour. That is until I get up again.

Fwiw, I never would've figured this out if I hadn't removed the chemicals and foods I am intolerant of out of my environment. Dr myhill explains this.

The diy pmttt thread here will show you how you can test yourself for orthostatic intolerance. It's very common in pwcs.

Tc .. X

 

[Little Bluestem]

To retierate, all I have to do is to sing "DO RE MI FA SOL LA SI DO" start for one minute then increase to 15 mins over a period
of months?

Is that 15 minutes or 11? I know it sounds pathetic, but I am wondering how I am going to fit another 18 minute activity into my schedule. I help out my elderly parents, who are needing more and more help. I recently started a new supplement regimen which requires that I split pills, somethings after crushing them, and put them into new capsules at smaller doses. This is already making me feel squeezed for time/energy. The fact that I have to start over if I miss a day before the initial 40 is daunting.

Would right before bed be an OK time to do this? Then I would be lying down for a lot more than 7 minutes.

 

[Asklipia]

Little Bluestem,
I suggest that if you want to try it, you follow MY instructions as I gave them, and repeated them for Quirky who might be brain-fogged and unable at the moment to read and understand a couple of posts.

If you want to give it a try, try it!! If you find it unpleasant after a couple of days, stop it! Don't get upset about this. It is something that you offer yourself as a treat. A little more energy for your brain. Like a cuddle you deserve and that no one is giving you. Allow yourself to benefit from a little extra oxygenation. It is a gesture of love, not an extra thing to do. And it is something that no one can take from you, that you do not have to pay for.

What if you miss a day? Start again! It does not mean that the benefit of the days you have completed is lost! It means that the benefit of doing it EVERY day for 40 days is lost. But when you start again, you start in a better position, you can do it for longer every day than you could at the very beginning.
Doing it for 40 days, apart from rewiring the brain, teaches you that you do love yourself enough to commit to do something good for yourself every day. I found that this disease reduced me to dry survival. The introduction of just a bit of tenderness towards myself was a big help.

Right before bed is fine. Anytime is fine.
Lots of love, be well!
Asklipia

 

[Asklipia]

I did find yoga wonderful physically - and I did practise every day at home.
I also worked out that the breathing during the movements (it was Vimi Yoga we practised) put the body into aerobic metabolism - which is why yoga builds strength and stamina.
But I was doing the physiology science in my head, not meditation.
I could not get into the meditation or breathing exercises at all - I HATED those parts of it.

Yes, you loved the aerobic, strength and stamina. Hated the meditation and breathing exercises. This is exactly what is wrong with us. I was the same and pushed too hard. As a result I went overboard and exhausted myself. I only got better by balancing the two sides. Chronic Fatigue means you are sick and tired of playing too hard. Since your mind refuses the rest and the dreams, you are FORCED to rest.
Not that I am saying that it is all in our head. I am sure that there are nasty causes to this illness. But it preys on the active/energetic/willful more, I think.
I feel well now, but I have learnt my lesson. Wanting all strength and lightning is a thing of the past for me. I see it as a temptation, temptation to try to live by my strength, which was overwhelming to others then. In fact I was overwhelming myself. I was happiest at the kill. Now I am happy every day!!! It wasn't entirely my fault, I realize now I was in some aspects taught and expected to be a winner.
Good luck,
Asklipia

 

[mellster]

Agreed - it took me a long time to understand that I don't have to push myself everyday. But this is also exascerbated by todays society. I am in Sicily on vacation right now and nobody I have met so far exercises at all, probably not much yoga around either, but people seem to be mostly healthy and live into their 80s with an active but balanced day and diet without too much exercise or inactivity. People smoke way more than in the US and exercise less, yet the life expectancy for Italy is 81.4 years vs 78.1 in the US. I love exercise but am concentrating now on breathing and balancing the mind. It's a long journey. One thing I struggle with as well is being social in my relationship vs being solitary when I need to without having a bad conscience.

 

[Sue Harris]

I recently had an appointment with a physio to try and build back some strenght as I have been doing a bit better.

During the exercises she wanted me to do this "deep breathing" where you deep inhale and exhale making a "shhhhh sound". I was concerned about this as I know from past experience if I try to breathe too deeply it drains me instantly, and I ironically I feel MORE short of breath.

However, at her insistance I tried this method. I started to feel very dizzy, and I told her this. She responded that this was a "good sign" and normal - means that oxygen is circulating. After the session it was clear to me I had made a mistake. I felt uterly EXHAUSTED, drained, short of breath, so that the first time in a long time for me I was unable to talk due to the fatigue.

I of course know that this is not a good match for my physio - so please no comments on this- I am aware. My question is does anyone else have this experience?? and does anyone know why or what can be done to help???
I have found in my experience I am able to do a littel bit of light exercise (lying down) so long as my breathing stays shallow, and my heart rate does not go up .. aka avoid anything resembling cardio.

PLEASE ANY THOUGHTS OR EXPERIENCE WOULD BE APPRECIATED!!

 

[Sue Harris]

I recently had an appointment with a physio to try and build back some strenght as I have been doing a bit better.

On my past experience, My deep breathing was affected by anxiety and panic attacks. Was put on medication and it is now controlled. Hope this helps!!!








During the exercises she wanted me to do this "deep breathing" where you deep inhale and exhale making a "shhhhh sound". I was concerned about this as I know from past experience if I try to breathe too deeply it drains me instantly, and I ironically I feel MORE short of breath.

However, at her insistance I tried this method. I started to feel very dizzy, and I told her this. She responded that this was a "good sign" and normal - means that oxygen is circulating. After the session it was clear to me I had made a mistake. I felt uterly EXHAUSTED, drained, short of breath, so that the first time in a long time for me I was unable to talk due to the fatigue.

I of course know that this is not a good match for my physio - so please no comments on this- I am aware. My question is does anyone else have this experience?? and does anyone know why or what can be done to help???
I have found in my experience I am able to do a littel bit of light exercise (lying down) so long as my breathing stays shallow, and my heart rate does not go up .. aka avoid anything resembling cardio.

PLEASE ANY THOUGHTS OR EXPERIENCE WOULD BE APPRECIATED!!