Dang those Vitamin D3 levels

LINE

Senior Member
Messages
918
Location
USA
I had my D3 levels checked after about a year of moderate dosing of D3 and still no change. Values are around 17, with 40 being a sufficient level.

Poking around to find opinions >

Some thoughts:

1/ I use a quality D3 at levels above recommended doses. I sat in the sun for some decent periods.

2/ I found that D3 is absorbed in the small intestine and absorption seems to be an issue with gut related problems (Crohn's, Colitis, IBD, IBS etc). Which I have.

3/ Being a fat soluble vitamin, absorption seems to increase with fats.

4/ Trying the sublingual way - which may solve the problem.

Thoughts?
 

linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,399
i know this story, it is similiar like mine.
i did 40k iu a week and it didnt rise my vitamin D above 10ng/ml. even after almost 1million iu in total after half a year. i am overweight.
in the end i got it up to 40+ng/ml.

what i did change then:
1/ I use a quality D3 at levels above recommended doses. I sat in the sun for some decent periods.
i did spread out my vitamin D across 3 days a week, like sunday, tuesday, thursday. i was using 40.000iu in total per week and had 15-10k per day. i took it with my biggest meal, dropped the drops all over it.
at first i had vitamin D which had 10.000iu per drop, i changed to a formulation which had only 500iu per drop... so i had 30-40 drops each session which was annoying but maybe the high concentration per drop has too less surface to be effectively absorbed.
2/ I found that D3 is absorbed in the small intestine and absorption seems to be an issue with gut related problems (Crohn's, Colitis, IBD, IBS etc). Which I have.
that can be true, but usually if this is the case you can just dose higher, at some point it will be absorbed.
what might help is something like bile salts like TUDCA if you take it with your vitamin D meal. it should help with fat absorption.
also your vitamin D supplement might just not have the dose they say it should have. it could be more or less. people complain about some brands not working every now and then. the pharmacy grade product or use a renowed vendor.

3/ Being a fat soluble vitamin, absorption seems to increase with fats.
thats right, take it with your main meal which should have fats.
as said above, something like TUDCA might help with absorption.
4/ Trying the sublingual way - which may solve the problem.
i personally dont believe it. i mean you will sublingual absorb for sure, but i cannot imagine that the many meter long intestines have less surface than your mouth does. but definitely something you can try.


5)
there could also be the situation that your cells are so void of vitamin D that at first your storage needs to be filled. usually vitamin D has a greater affinity to fat cells so they might fill up first. the more weight you got the more this will affect you. so when fat cells are saturated the vitamin D might spill over to your blood stream and other parts of your body, finally increasing the measurement.

6)
or you could lack any of those cofactors.
the vitamin d receptors are dependant on vitamin A , zink and others i might have forgotten. get some vitamin A too maybe.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
6,033
Location
Alberta
4/ Trying the sublingual way - which may solve the problem.
I was under the impression that sublingual absorption is quite low for lipids and fat soluble molecules. A quick check didn't turn up an answer to that. I did find that sublingual VitD sprays were shown to be effective in raising serum levels, up to a certain level. I can't see any reason not to try holding a VitD capsule under your tongue instead of swallowing it, and seeing whether that's more effective for you.
 

LINE

Senior Member
Messages
918
Location
USA
I was under the impression that sublingual absorption is quite low for lipids and fat soluble molecules. A quick check didn't turn up an answer to that. I did find that sublingual VitD sprays were shown to be effective in raising serum levels, up to a certain level. I can't see any reason not to try holding a VitD capsule under your tongue instead of swallowing it, and seeing whether that's more effective for you.
Thanks for the response :)
 

Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
Messages
3,068
Mine took forever to go up, i was taking 8000IU a day.
Now its in the upper normal range and down to 5000 IU. You have to keep taking a high dose for months to get the levels up then you can scale back.
 

Viala

Senior Member
Messages
703
Average of 3,000 iu per day.
It may be too low. I started to notice the difference in my mood with 10000-15000 IU daily and I took these amounts for some time. The highest I tried was 40000 IU but this was too much, it made me sleepy and I felt as if I was too long in the sun. I think 10-15k is the sweet and safe spot during low UV months.

15000 IU is about what our skin makes in an hour of whole body sunbathing during summer and this amount worked pretty well for me. It should be taken with vitamin K2 to make sure that calcium moved by vitamin D goes where it should be and it's also a good idea to add some vitamin A as retinyl palmitate to it. These higher amounts are above RDA of course. It didn't do much for my ME. Hope it helps.
 

LINE

Senior Member
Messages
918
Location
USA
It may be too low. I started to notice the difference in my mood with 10000-15000 IU daily and I took these amounts for some time. The highest I tried was 40000 IU but this was too much, it made me sleepy and I felt as if I was too long in the sun. I think 10-15k is the sweet and safe spot during low UV months.

15000 IU is about what our skin makes in an hour of whole body sunbathing during summer and this amount worked pretty well for me. It should be taken with vitamin K2 to make sure that calcium moved by vitamin D goes where it should be and it's also a good idea to add some vitamin A as retinyl palmitate to it. These higher amounts are above RDA of course. It didn't do much for my ME. Hope it helps.
Thank you.
 

Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
Messages
3,068
15000 IU is about what our skin makes in an hour of whole body sunbathing during summer
However our body has a regulatory mechanism and once our levels reach full our body stops making any more of it. When you consume it you bypass this mechanism.
I had my levels tested every 3 months since they were doing other tests anyways, it took me a long time on 8000IU to get my levels up but eventually i crossed the maximum safe level and had to scale back to 5000 IU. They reduced the frequency of my tests so next month's test which is the first this year may show i'm again above the maximum safe level. Though mind you i have been on it for about 5 years now.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Have you considered a vitamin D lamp such as Sperti? Some find them helpful @Nord Wolf @Freddd but they are very expensive.
i felt the change for the first 5 of 3-minute one side dose of UVB and I could feel it change starting 2 hours later. And after that no more time or new changes have been felt beyond my veins, big and small. that has healed since last December is those tangles of capillaries, I used to have lots of, and varicose veins have all shrunk back down to a normal size and no longer to be seen.

I'm pleased with the results with the lamp I bought. There was some sticker shock at first.
 
Last edited:

perchance dreamer

Senior Member
Messages
1,714
Xymogen's D3 liquid has raised my levels to where my P.A. likes them. I really like this product because it is inexpensive and keep for months in the refrigerator. Each drop has 1000 IU.
 

LINE

Senior Member
Messages
918
Location
USA
Some updates:

I received a report about a man who have low Vit D (blood levels) but had normal levels of the active form (1,25-dihydroxy vitamin D). The theory is that the macrophages are using the active form where it is needed.

Second update is I found a liposomal form of Vit D (with Vitamin K2). Liposomals are known for better absorption.
 

datadragon

Senior Member
Messages
408
Location
USA
Heres just a bit LINE:

Research is showing that Magnesium does not continue to raise Vitamin D levels over 30ng/ml but brings them back down when higher back to around that level. Magnesium was found to have a regulating effect, raising and lowering vitamin D levels based on the original starting baseline 25(OH)D levels. In those people who had a baseline 25-D level of 30 ng/ml or below, magnesium supplementation raised up their 25-D level as expected. However, In those who started out with higher 25-D baseline levels starting around 30 ng/ml (75 nmol/L) up to 50 ng/ml (125 nmol/L), magnesium supplementation LOWERED THEIR 25-D levels back down, not raised 25-D levels to even higher levels that some suggest is an optimal level (it appears its not according to many new research findings that needs to be reconsidered). Magnesium regulates vitamin D levels, low magnesium impedes your body's ability to utilize vitamin D, even when it's present or taken by supplementation. Magnesium deficiency shuts down the vitamin D synthesis and metabolism pathways. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916522030581 Note that some groups among the population may do better with lower levels due to genetics.

The vitamin D binding protein (DBP) increased significantly after estrogen and there was a significant positive correlation between the plasma concentration of 1,25-(OH)2D (active Vitamin D) and DBP. https://www.researchgate.net/public...strogen_on_Vitamin_D_Metabolism_in_Tall_Girls Unlike vitamin A, which facilitates the hepatic secretion of the retinol-binding protein, vitamin D sterols or other calciotropic hormones do not regulate the plasma Vitamin D binding protein (DBP) concentration. Its hepatic synthesis is estrogen dependent and is significantly increased during pregnancy and estrogen therapy. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128000946000017 Estrogen conversion from testosterone is linked to cytochrome p450 enzymes requiring magnesium as a cofactor and can be lowered during inflammation states. Vitamin A is also needed which further needs zinc for its metabolism. So again can point to inflammation, zinc, vitamin A, or mag as other potential culprits rather than Vitamin D. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...eficiency-in-the-raw-datas.91176/post-2448637

Boron helps prevent the breakdown of vitamin D and increases the amount of available vitamin D in the body. Boron suppresses the activity of 24-hydroxylase encoded by CYP24A1, the microsomal enzyme primarily responsible for catabolism (breakdown) of 25(OH)D3 Another study mentioned that after only 1 week of boron supplementation of 6 mg/d all of the inflammatory biomarkers that were measured also decreased: (1) interleukin (IL) 6, from 1.55 pg/mL to 0.87 pg/mL; (2) high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP) by approximately 50%, a remarkable decrease, from 1460 ng/mL to 795 ng/mL; and (3) tumor necrosis factor (TNF-) by approximately 30%, from 12.32 to 9.97 pg/mL.
Levels of dihydrotestosterone, cortisol, and vitamin D increased slightly. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4712861/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22100522/

Example: Retinoid X receptor requires Vitamin A. The RXR also forms a heterodimer with a number of other receptors (e.g., vitamin D and thyroid. hormone). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peroxisome_proliferator-activated_recepto Vitamin D binds to its receptor (VDR) and dimerizes (combine with a similar molecule to form a dimer) with the retinoid X receptor (RXR), which is a retinoic acid (vitamin A) receptor. RXR is needed to activate the vitamin D receptor (VDR) and the Thyroid Hormone Receptor (THR) and peroxisome proliferator–activated receptor (PPARs).
Without sufficient vitamin A, vitamin D is unable to properly fulfill some of its functions related to the VDR. [In the cell, VDR binds 1,25(OH)2D, and the complex interacts with the retinoid X receptor to form a 1,25(OH)2D*VDR*retinoid X receptor heterodimer complex. This complex can bind vitamin D–responsive elements in the promoter regions of target genes.] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9790574/ https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10552-004-1661-4 Zinc also is shown to be needed for VDR beyond its role with vitamin A metabolism.

Vitamin A and D also work in synergy throughout the body including for immunity which is compromised upon loss of Vitamin A, and that Retinoic Acid served to activate the T cells driving these responses. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/219513#1

Chronic fructose intake decreases the active form of Vitamin D 1,25(OH)2D3 levels. Chronically high fructose intakes can decrease serum levels of 1,25(OH)2D3 in adult rodents experiencing no Ca2+ stress and fed sufficient levels of dietary Ca2+. This finding is highly significant because fructose constitutes a substantial portion of the average diet of Americans. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0093611
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
i read the amazon reviews for Sperti and some people are complaining that the lamp didnt raise their D levels.
One has to have the precursors in the body in order for UVB to make D3 in the skin. When my doctor took me off testosterone, when I reached 0.0x ng/ml or whatever, essentially none, I could not make any D with a UVB light.
 
Back