CROI: XMRV Easily Grows in Lymph Tissue/Does not replicate/no Immune effects

[markmc20001]

Got it - so it could possibly do that. Makes sense to me. I'll fix it.

Thanks for the response on that issue.

We have enough confusion around here with all the conflicting study results on XMRV without other disinformation from journalists such as yourself.

When news comes out that supports XMRV infection in humans I would appreciate accurate reporting, if you decide to do any kind of journalism at all.

 

[Grape Funk]

EeeeeeeeeeZ Mark

 

[glenp]

Related retrovirus

All of this is about the XMRV - there is still the related retrovirus????

glen

 

[SOC]

Thanks for the response on that issue.

We have enough confusion around here with all the conflicting study results on XMRV without other disinformation from journalists such as yourself.

When news comes out that supports XMRV infection in humans I would appreciate accurate reporting, if you decide to do any kind of journalism at all.

That seems to me unnecessarily harsh, Mark.

 

[Cort]

Thanks for the response on that issue.

We have enough confusion around here with all the conflicting study results on XMRV without other disinformation from journalists such as yourself.

When news comes out that supports XMRV infection in humans I would appreciate accurate reporting, if you decide to do any kind of journalism at all.

Mark I do want to remind you how many positive papers on XMRV I've done (check out the XMRV section - there's a ton of positive stuff there).....If there is news on the other side, though, - as distressing as it is - I think that's part of the mix as well.

I do try and clean up my mistakes when I make them. Thanks for pointing out something I missed. No harm intended.

 

[leaves]

Thanks Cort, youre doing a great job.

 

[SOC]

Speculation (and maybe Stupidity, too) Warning: do not read if speculation upsets you

Okay, I'm leaping way beyond my knowledge here, so just laugh and ignore me if I'm not making any sense....

HHV-6 establishes a latent infection in human tonsillar lymphoid tissue.
Prevalence and cellular reservoir of latent human herpesvirus 6 in tonsillar lymphoid tissue. "We conclude that HHV-6 is present universally in tonsils of children, and tonsillar epithelium may be an important viral reservoir in latent infection." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11710680

We know HHV-6 can reactivate under certain conditions, and certainly in ME/CFS patients.

Now the IrsiCaixa group is finding XMRV establishes a latent infection in human tonsillar lymphoid tissue.....

Isn't it well within the bounds of possibility then, that XMRV can reactivate from the tonsillar reservoir under the right conditions? When the immune system is over-taxed, for example?

Could XMRV be hard to find in the blood because it reactivates intermittently, so is only in the blood in measurable amounts immediately after reactivating?

Could each reactivation spread infection to other tissues, so that the more reactivations one has had, the greater the tissue infection and possibly the greater effect on tissues/organs?

Isn't the finding of a latent infection in human tonsillar lymphoid tissue a bigger deal than it might at first appear? Finding a possible reservoir from which XMRV might be "rally(ing) forth and attacking the body" is a valuable bit of the puzzle, isn't it?

Or am I missing the mark entirely?

Got tonsils?

 

[Grape Funk]

Isn't it well within the bounds of possibility then, that XMRV can reactivate from the tonsillar reservoir under the right conditions? When the immune system is over-taxed, for example?

I believe you would need more research to confirm that, but could be a dignified possibility

Could XMRV be hard to find in the blood because it reactivates intermittently, so is only in the blood in measurable amounts immediately after reactivating?

This is one major possibilit, since most people with CFIDS(in my opinion) would have to test for XMRV during first 6 months of onset of CFIDS, OR test XMRV when in a horrible relapse when the person is basically bedbound with the flu symptoms for months on end. To me these would be the best times to test for current activation. Cheney also said something close to the first statement i mentioned. Also, tissue is probably going to be the most "profitable" for finding infection imo.

Could each reactivation spread infection to other tissues, so that the more reactivations one has had, the greater the tissue infection and possibly the greater effect on tissues/organs?

Idk about this personally, dont want to give a wrong answer.

Isn't the finding of a latent infection in human tonsillar lymphoid tissue a bigger deal than it might at first appear? Finding a possible reservoir from which XMRV might be "rally(ing) forth and attacking the body" is a valuable bit of the puzzle, isn't it?

In the connection of say, xmrv and ebv were able to pro long the life of eachother, and work as a coalition, they, i imagine, could do serious damage. This would go for more viruses as well, besides ebv. BUT, that all depends on if xmrv is the main culprit, and the immune system weakener. Or, the infection allowing these other infections to awaken, so to speak.

Or am I missing the mark entirely?

You're on point

Got tonsils?

INtresting this is, as whenever i push myself to far, I can feel a sore throat emerging like a knight out of the forest. It lingers there then strikes on its enemy (me unfortunately). Also, interesting my sister gets tonsillitis once a year or 2 at least, to the point where her sore throat invoked the thought of taking out her tonsils (non cfids patient).

[/QUOTE]

 

[lansbergen]

Now the IrsiCaixa group is finding XMRV establishes a latent infection in human tonsillar lymphoid tissue.....

Isn't it well within the bounds of possibility then, that XMRV can reactivate from the tonsillar reservoir under the right conditions? When the immune system is over-taxed, for example?

Yes

Could XMRV be hard to find in the blood because it reactivates intermittently, so is only in the blood in measurable amounts immediately after reactivating?

Yes

Could each reactivation spread infection to other tissues, so that the more reactivations one has had, the greater the tissue infection and possibly the greater effect on tissues/organs?

Yes

Got tonsils?

Yes

 

[LaurelW]

What happens if you had your tonsils out as a kid?

 

[Enid]

sickofcfs - No scientist but your whole post 27 sounds pretty good reasoning to me - more of that please ! Sort of - we've got the possible culprits - how (interacting) and where (reservoirs) and tipping point. Just feel this sort of research moves us on. (Must be the old Agatha Christie in me).

 

[August59]

I had tosillitis 3 to 4 times a year from as young as I can remember up until I was 17 or 18 years old. After that it for some reason just went away and I have only treated it 3 or 4 times since then and I am now 51 years old. My HHV6 titres are "high" per Labcorp.

We were getting ready to have my tonsils removed when it calmed down plus they were starting to believe it was advantageous to keep your tonsils.

I never had "mono" that i can remember, but my EBV titres are very high as well.

 

[SOC]

I had tosillitis 3 to 4 times a year from as young as I can remember up until I was 17 or 18 years old. After that it for some reason just went away and I have only treated it 3 or 4 times since then and I am now 51 years old. My HHV6 titres are "high" per Labcorp.

We were getting ready to have my tonsils removed when it calmed down plus they were starting to believe it was advantageous to keep your tonsils.

I never had "mono" that i can remember, but my EBV titres are very high as well.

I, too, have often had tonsillitis, and heard, "Years ago we would have taken out these tonsils". I have a persistent HHV-6 infection for which I am taking Valcyte. My EBV titres fluctuate around in the highish range, but I don't have an active EBV infection. I think many of us have variations on this story.

An interesting side note: In our house, the only person without ME/CFS (despite living in intimate contact with us sickos for years) had his tonsils out as a child.

None of this even resembles a smoking gun; it's just interesting anecdotal information. It seems highly likely based on the macaque data that there will be multiple reservoirs for XMRV (or HGRVs, if you prefer), so it's not likely that having or not having tonsils makes much difference.

But why isn't the fact that they've found a likely reservoir for XMRV in humans making more of a splash? Haven't we established that blood is not a good place to find XMRV? Surely tonsil tissue for research use is not that hard to come by... or is it?

 

[Wonko]

just a small aside - is everyone else using a different defination of "grows" than i do? how can XMRV grow but not replicate?

 

[August59]

I, too, have often had tonsillitis, and heard, "Years ago we would have taken out these tonsils". I have a persistent HHV-6 infection for which I am taking Valcyte. My EBV titres fluctuate around in the highish range, but I don't have an active EBV infection. I think many of us have variations on this story.

An interesting side note: In our house, the only person without ME/CFS (despite living in intimate contact with us sickos for years) had his tonsils out as a child.

None of this even resembles a smoking gun; it's just interesting anecdotal information. It seems highly likely based on the macaque data that there will be multiple reservoirs for XMRV (or HGRVs, if you prefer), so it's not likely that having or not having tonsils makes much difference.

But why isn't the fact that they've found a likely reservoir for XMRV in humans making more of a splash? Haven't we established that blood is not a good place to find XMRV? Surely tonsil tissue for research use is not that hard to come by... or is it?

The EBV titres does not seem to be a set science, but my diagnosis was reactivation plus i had high HHV6 as well. I took Valcyte for about 3 months and out of the blue i started having thyroid problems (was not related to Valcyte) and they wanted me stop Valcyte until it was under control.

 

[urbantravels]

This experiment should be taken as a look at "lymphoid" tissue (tonsils are not technically lymph nodes) to see how it might react. It doesn't mean the tonsils, themselves, would thereby be shown to be the ONLY reservoir - just that this is highly suggestive of how XMRV might act in other lymphoid tissue. Easy tissue to get since it was from people undergoing tonsilectomies, so it's good for a simple experiment. XMRV could be hanging out in a lot of other places in the lymphatic system.

Ila Singh, where are you???

 

[SOC]

The EBV titres does not seem to be a set science, but my diagnosis was reactivation plus i had high HHV6 as well. I took Valcyte for about 3 months and out of the blue i started having thyroid problems (was not related to Valcyte) and they wanted me stop Valcyte until it was under control.

Yeah, they don't seem to have this herpesvirus thing figured out yet. My opinion is that herpesviruses (as well as other pathogens, like Lyme) are eventually going to be found to be major players, but not the root cause of our illness.

To bad about the thyroid and Valcyte. We're having pretty good luck with it in our family -- significant improvements in 3 family members (3 generations) on Valcyte.

Hope you can get the thyroid issues under control soon!

 

[August59]

Ila Singh, where are you???

I hear you!! Where oh where are you! I bet she has her autopsy study ready, but can't get it published.

 

[SOC]

This experiment should be taken as a look at "lymphoid" tissue (tonsils are not technically lymph nodes) to see how it might react. It doesn't mean the tonsils, themselves, would thereby be shown to be the ONLY reservoir - just that this is highly suggestive of how XMRV might act in other lymphoid tissue. Easy tissue to get since it was from people undergoing tonsilectomies, so it's good for a simple experiment. XMRV could be hanging out in a lot of other places in the lymphatic system.

Ila Singh, where are you???

Ah, yes, I'm confusing the studies. In this study they infected tissue samples with XMRV (or contaminated it with something, if you run with that crowd), so all they showed was that tonsillar lymphoid tissue (whatever that means) could be infected with XMRV (or contaminated), not that they found it there originally.

Certainly there could be all sorts of reservoirs for HGRVs. I was just hoping we had a known tissue reservoir that would be easy to use for research. Sounds like we're not quite there, yet. Maybe we all need to donate our tonsils for research.

Ila Singh's work is the research I'm most eager to see at this point. Anyone heard when it's likely to be out?

 

[alex3619]

Hi everyone. I just want to make a point on the scientific process. We have a tendency to be critical of people who are either pro- or anti- XMRV in a particular post. Whichever camp you tend to fall into, the other people are your friends. Robust science requires that everything be challenged and questioned if it can be. You can't trust unchallenged science. After another several years of challenges, XMRV hypotheses about ME/CFS could be filed in the bottom draw or be leading toward a real cure for us.

So, with a nod to Benjamin Franklin, the critics are are friends. Well challenged science that holds up over years is the only science we can even begin to trust.

There is no us and them. There is only us: ME/CFS patients (and allied disorders of course).

Bye
Alex