CROI (Retrovirology and Opportunistic Infections, Boston) on XMRV and CFS

[SilverbladeTE]

important note:
many of the great discoveries in Science have been made by *amateurs*, and this still occurs today though with less frequency, due to the fact that most advancements require extremely complex aparatus and large teams.

Getting a PhD or whatever is merely the *start* of getting to grips with a field, it doesn't make you God

"Assumption is the mother of all f*ck ups!" and should be noted on all lab buildings in big lettering
By that I mean, far too often folk get to assume Occam's Razor = right answer, instead of efficient method to start from but not necessarily correct way.
as time goes on folks' thinking always tends to occify, but each problem is UNIQUE, while prior answers may well give easy way to find correct answer for current issue...it maybe entirely wrong and relying too much on past experience can lead to dreadful errors, ie, assumptions.
All good researchers do know that. But I can't tell who's good/bad (with only a few exceptions), so I can but hope

And yet I know many folk who's thinking is open,will find answers many who's thinking is closed, cannot. Thus amateurs who beaver away with passion at a thing, can find solutions that experts who are tired, harassed, lack refreshing input, occified, or even out of their depth or hubristic cannot.

Research is carried out by Human Beings..and all that entails!

And my respects to the vast number of folk who've beavered away over many many years, doing icnredibly boring work, that has given us so much, be they amateur or professional

 

[markmc20001]

Originally Posted by KFG
This should be a scientific issue. I don't give a damn if XMRV pans out or not. I DO CARE about finding out what has wrecked my life. This may be XMRV or it may not. This is a scientific issue. It's vitally important that XMRV is not trashed before it's properly checked out. On the other hand, we don't want researchers spending time and resources on something which is not relevant. That's why we are in a very difficult position at present.

What won't help is anyone being obnoxious or beligerent or intolerant. I don't read the other forums because the people who stopped posting here and went there had a different standard of acceptable forum behaviour. Let's debate 'til the cows come home but keep it civil. If you don't keep it civil you scare people off.

I don't want to defend foul behavior because it makes it difficult to have a debate. However, if one steps up to a level 5-6 levels of consciousness for a minute. One can see it is difficult to maintain restraint when the evidence is overwhelming it is not a scientific debate. The good science of the WPI/FDA has been largely been drowned out with crappy science and plausible denialability.

The WPI has found a retrovirus linked to neuroimmune disease over a year ago, the FDA confirmed the WPI findings with more elaboarte testing methods showing in greater detail. Various junk studies have been released in an attempt to quickly drown out the good work of the WPI and FDA. ALL of which don't prove anything wrong with the WPI findings or the FDA findings. ALL of the naysayers have either used lousy testing methods(dried blood spot, and bad primers), or have simply stated that contamination is a possbility and tried to mislead everybody into thinking that those studies PROVED there was contamination.

For one year now nobody has attempted to replicate the WPI's EXACT testing methods. Nobody has identified any problems with the FDA study or the WPI study. It's been a story of a DAvid(WPI) battling Goliath(UK, CDC, MRC, coorporate owned news media, and who knows what other special interests).

Time to face reality and realize this retrovirus is REAL and not going away.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Mark
again, see what those evil, stupid lunatics did with HIV/AIDs, denying, refusing to investigate because they acted like gays/drug users/non-whites were "filthy non-humans who deserved to die of plague!"
O M G...utterly unbelievable, but did indeed happen, it WAS a conspiracy and they DID get away with it. See "And the Band Played On", book or film for details on the despicable FOUL way HIV was treated and let run rampant, sigh.

This (XMRV) though could be much much worse, and that's saying something.
they are *insane* cover ups caus emroe toruble than the damn original problem, it's like not treating an infection..BOOM! ulcer!..BOOM! Gangrene!...BOOM! death. Jeesh.

 

[JT1024]

I rarely get onto PR but I happened to see this thread. Given what I've learned in the last 24 hours, there is substantial reason for people to be concerned about retroviruses.

If you get a chance, go to www.mednar.com. It is a deep web medical research search engine. If you type in recombinant murine retrovirus, you will get many "hits".

I downloaded many documents and have learned that the risk of an RCR (replication competent retroviruses) has been a subject of concern for many years.

People can argue all they want. The science is there. The next steps are to 1) minimize future risks for biologics and vaccines and 2) find treatments for all of us!

Just my two cents... ~ JT

 

[markmc20001]

I disagree with almost every statement you make so there's no point in trying to debate. I stand by what I said 100%. I think Gerwyn's comments on the Retrovirology website are precisely the kind of thing we can do without. Good scientists aren't abusive or insulting in that way. The impression I get from people with far more PUBLISHED literature than him ( where is his retrovirology publishing record - give me a break ) is that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Whether he does or not, coming across as an egotistical, unlistening, pain in the rear is harming our cause. I don't want to waste any more of my energy on that subject.

Funnily enough, you're entitled to your opinion on Phoenix Rising and I hope no-one gives you a hard time for it ! I can fight with the best of them but some people want to fight with everyone regardless of whether they know what they're talking about. The science has some way to go - as I said already - but it doesn't look great at this point. I have enough faith in the scientific process that I think we'll get to the truth, whatever that might be. It is what it is. WPI could still be right, but things need to turn around in the next 12 months at most. I hope they do. But it's about science, not who shouts the loudest.

No worries.

I'm not defending Gerwyn or his bad behavior, or any of the other horrific behavior I see over there. It's kind of like going to a hair salon with a bunch of narcissistic hair stylists that talk about retroviruses on that other forum some days. A big click.

However, I understand that brain damage affects ones empathy. I have 10 lesions and serious brain damage, I know first hand how brain damage affects ones self control and behavior. Not saying that is the case with all of them, but likely some of them.

I don't like his style, and he could care less what I think he is fighting for his life and others lives. However, that obsession from that group has basically lead to intense non-stop research that has thrown a wrench into the gears of all the corruption supporters. I appreciate that part, it is long overdue. Hence I think the group has done good. It is only the type of anger and passion that is needed to overthrow the special interests. However, that anger is counterproductive to some extent and makes it impossible to debate. It's clear they need to change, but they can stay in their group and they are not doing any harm to anybody but the CDC, and probably only helping the debate. If they didn't have valid points Everybody could ignore them, but apparently Gerwyn does so people feel compelled to respond.

I'm not here to upset anybody, last thing I want to do. I'm just here to wake a few people up.

This whole story goes way beyond just the CDC by the way. It is a story about coorporate influenece on government. It is a story about the news media being owned by and putting "spin" on health articles. It is about the UK and US working together to keep the people sick, in the dark, and cut off disability benefits. It is about the way drug companies have trained doctors. It just goes on. just saying it is one big mess.

 

[Cort]

I did an overview of the CROI conference - forgot to put a link to it:

http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/content.php?377-Comedown-at-CROI-XMRV-and-CFS-at-the-Conference-Retroviruses-Opportunistic-Infections-Boston

 

[Bob]

Home Search Abstracts View Session Email Abstract Author


Session 58-Poster Abstracts
XMRV and GBV Virus–Host Interaction
Tuesday, 2-4 pm; Hall D
Paper # 237
A Sensitive Real-time PCR Assay for the Detection and Quantification of XMRV
Laura Li*, M Raines, and T Robins
Quest Diagnostics Clin Trials, Valencia, CA, US



Background: Xenotropic murine leukemia virus-related virus (XMRV) was first identified in prostate tissue from prostate cancer patients. One study reported detection of XMRV in 67% of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), as compared with 3.7% of healthy controls. Subsequently, several studies failed to detect XMRV in CFS patients, sparking controversy in the field. Therefore, a more sensitive and specific method is needed to resolve the issue. To this end, we have developed a sensitive real-time PCR assay that reliably detects XMRV from CFS patients.

Methods: XMRV RNA was extracted from CFS patients’ peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) or PBMC/LNCap cells using Trizol reagent. RNA was reverse transcribed using Superscript VILO cDNA synthesis kit. Taqman primers and probe were designed and used in the quantitative real-time PCR assay.

Results: The performance of our quantitative real-time PCR assay was determined, and then it was compared with the current XMRV detection method. Current XMRV detection methods use a nested PCR assay followed by agarose gel detection of the PCR product. These methods are labor intensive and time consuming. A sensitive real-time PCR assay was developed to detect and quantify XMRV within 2 hours. This assay could detect as few as 1 to 2 copies of XMRV RNA molecule in the reaction. In addition, the linear range of the assay was established and quantification of XMRV virus was performed to show that the assay can be used to detect and quantify XMRV RNA simultaneously. Furthermore, specificity of the assay was confirmed by the fact that it detects XMRV but not HIV, hepatitis B virus, or hepatitis C virus. Direct comparison of 1 current method with the quantitative real-time PCR assay was carried out. PBMC from CFS patients were either co-cultured with LNCap cells or not. Viral RNA was extracted and tested with both methods. Both methods could detect XMRV in the co-cultured PBMC/LNCap. However, only the quantitative real-time PCR assay could detect XMRV in non-co-cultured PBMC.

Conclusions: Based on preliminary performance data, this real-time PCR assay could be a sensitive and quantitative tool for detecting XMRV.

This seems like a helpful development...

Does anyone have any insight into the following?:

When they say it could be a 'quantitative' tool, and it can detect and 'quantify' XMVR RNA, do they mean they would be able to measure viral load?

Why do they test its specificity by using HIV and hepatitis viruses? Wouldn't it be better to test it's specificity on other gammaretroviruses?