Crash SO hard after using my muscles?? What is that?

[grapes]

@grapes - I haven't read your whole thread here, but it sounds like PEM to me, and if you're able to find the cause, we'd all like to know! That's the $64,000 question - what causes PEM? It doesn't show up on lab tests, that we know of. I've remedied all the nutritional deficiencies I could find. And yes, if/when I have energy, if I use it all, I'm guaranteed to crash the next day, even though I had enough energy the day before. I don't think it's a matter of having enough energy. The problem seems to be how our bodies produce energy (anaerobically, very inefficiently) and what our bodies do in response to exertion. Exertion seems to produce an inflammatory response, I think - I'm a bit fuzzy here.

Anyways, your crashing sounds like a perfectly normal ME/CFS response to activity. To avoid crashing, I've found I have to limit myself to 3-1/2 to 4 hours of LIGHT activity a day - no way could I move rocks and avoid crashing.

Hi Mary. Well yes, it's post-exertional malaise, but for me, it's been critical to find the cause, not just accept that I have it. And I think I'm getting closer to finding that cause. Time will tell.

 

[grapes]

A healthy person will have trouble digesting all that protein. Protein powders can also be tricky due to the contents. You have to be so careful to check the ingredients, where it was sourced, and only go for the organic or grass fed if going the whey route, with as little ingredients as possible. I can go through a whole store full of them and maybe find only one that fits the bill. I also have an intestinal distress issue with e.g. pea protein, which many of them have. Many have added sugars, chemicals and unpronouncable ingredients. Perhaps try single ingredient versions first to see which your body can handle. Or try adding protein through easily (for you) digestable food, perhaps some organic air chilled free range chicken breast, happy eggs, grass fed/finished beef, hemp seeds.

But with all of them, you can try adding some enzymes to help break it down, just in case.

True, I found that out the hard way when I increased it. But...I did a lot of research and found the best quality one I could find. Now, I'm going to try the egg white protein powder. But I can also see, now that I understand how protein works in our bodies, that I simply need to sip on it all day, not guzzle it all down within 30 - 60 minutes. So we'll see....definitely work in progress. lol

 

[Mary]

Hi Mary. Well yes, it's post-exertional malaise, but for me, it's been critical to find the cause, not just accept that I have it. And I think I'm getting closer to finding that cause. Time will tell.

I'm sure there's a cause, and I hope you find it! I've been trying for 21 years and I know everyone else here are trying their hardest too - do let us know if you're able to solve the riddle of PEM

 

[grapes]

Update for June 2019: I crashed again yesterday after lots of activity--walking up and down walking, seeing sites, had plenty of energy to do it all, until I suddenly didn't. Below is a graphic to describe it...because it's very much like gas in a car, i.e, if you didn't have a gas gauge, you could be blissfully driving along at a certain speed, until the gas suddenly runs out and the car just stops. Describes this to a T. The physical fatigue lasts for days.

So once again, I'm left with the same feeling every time---that it's like I run out of something. But of what? And it takes days for whatever runs out to build back up again. It does build back, too. Once it does, I'll be fairly active again to a degree with no issues, until I cross the line, and then a crash.

Now one thing I've been exploring all over again are digestive enzymes. I don't have pancreatic insufficiency, says the results of a stool test. YET the one issue it did reveal is that I'm in the intermediate zone of not breaking down carbohydrates / sugars--the latter were in my stool. aka carbohydrate malabsorption. Could THAT be causing these crashes? All I know to do is be even more diligent taking digestive enzymes with a good amount of amylase for one and with every time I eat. And see.

 

[grapes]

I have some added thoughts about my version of miserable PEM which will up to a week to recover from.

1) I once was consuming a bag of peanut M&M's when hiking over 3 miles..and I didn't crash. I just didn't put two and two together at the time. I haven't replicated eating carbs when being active, but what's the underlying problem that I would need to be eating small amounts of carbs the entire time I'm being physical so as not to crash? I don't see others doing that when being active... It almost implies that my glycogen is not going a good job turning into glucose??

2) I have a strong family history of diabetes on one parent's side. So far, I show no signs of it, using my husband's blood monitor to test two hours after I've eaten (103 for example), and first thing in the morning (95 for example). All good. But does that family background of diabetes mean something is screwed up in me?

3) I have been very committed to taking good digestive enzymes every time I eat, since a stool test showed some sugar/carbs in my stool. One has been Dr Amy Myers version. Another is Natures Plus Ultra-Zyme--the caps are coated so they get to the intestines. For my last crash almost a week ago, even as bad with fatigue as it was, I did start to recover by the 4th day. But I'm left wondering WHY would only carbs be in my stool? Surely a pancreas would be releasing all enzymes instead of two out of three??

 

[pogoman]

Have you tried taking coq10 along with the carnitine and B2?
Those three form the core of whats called a mito cocktail.

They have helped me avoid or lessen crashes the past few years, I have a necrotizing myopathy along with neuro issues.

 

[grapes]

Have you tried taking coq10 along with the carnitine and B2?
Those three form the core of whats called a mito cocktail.

They have helped me avoid or lessen crashes the past few years, I have a necrotizing myopathy along with neuro issues.

I take all three. Was off carnitine for a little while, as labs showed it pretty high. Got back on just recently. B2 I'm also on, as my OAT showed it not optimal. As far as CoQ10, I'm on ubiquinol, but will raise it again. Thank u.

 

[grapes]

Have you tried taking coq10 along with the carnitine and B2?
Those three form the core of whats called a mito cocktail.

They have helped me avoid or lessen crashes the past few years, I have a necrotizing myopathy along with neuro issues.

By the way, how much of each are you taking??

 

[pogoman]

By the way, how much of each are you taking??

I take 100 mg each of Natures Way B2 and Doctors Best Coq10 at morning and before bed.

Doctors Best is ubiquinone but I found for me it works just as good if not better than the Qunol branded ubiquinol.

With carnitine its 1000 mg twice a day as above.

 

[grapes]

Still hoping to find someone on this forum who had a stool test that revealed carbs in one's stool. And I still crash if not careful.

 

[Eddy M]

Still hoping to find someone on this forum who had a stool test that revealed carbs in one's stool. And I still crash if not careful.

One advice: Try to avoid the crashes and stay within your energy envelope. One day you will crash and never recover.

 

[LordSutch]

Grapes have you got any further in ascertaining a cause here? It sounds so familiar to me. Early this year i was training for a half marathon, no problems. Last week i ran 8k one morning and for one reason or another that set off PEM. Severe fatigue and sleepiness just as you describe.

This has been typical of me for years and years. i haven't even began to scratch the surface like you have as detailed in this thread as to what the cause is; the only correlating factor is carbohydrate. I didn't eat too healthy the night before the 8k run, i didn't eat breakfast before i ran, and i took too long to eat breakfast after i came back. I use a protein shake with finely ground oats usually as a quick carb source. I would love to know if this carbohydrate defecit is the cause, but i have no idea how to find out. Your car fuel analogy is similar to my battery analogy which i posted in my first ever post a day or two ago.

On a side note, do you think your bloating reaction to whey could be a lactose/dairy intolerance?

 

[BeADocToGoTo1]

Grapes have you got any further in ascertaining a cause here? It sounds so familiar to me. Early this year i was training for a half marathon, no problems. Last week i ran 8k one morning and for one reason or another that set off PEM. Severe fatigue and sleepiness just as you describe.

This has been typical of me for years and years. i haven't even began to scratch the surface like you have as detailed in this thread as to what the cause is; the only correlating factor is carbohydrate. I didn't eat too healthy the night before the 8k run, i didn't eat breakfast before i ran, and i took too long to eat breakfast after i came back. I use a protein shake with finely ground oats usually as a quick carb source. I would love to know if this carbohydrate defecit is the cause, but i have no idea how to find out. Your car fuel analogy is similar to my battery analogy which i posted in my first ever post a day or two ago.

Hi @LordSutch

Beside the potential malabsorption issues, have you looked at your blood sugar control and have you tracked the impact of your diet on your blood glucose using a simple pin prick meter?

Have you looked into the athletes (e.g. Zach Bitter, Mark Sisson, Joe Rogan), that are performing on a ketogenic diet, or the Primal diet? Here is a discussion that contains a few links to videos and info on blood sugar impact that may be of interest:

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ticles-on-patients-who-did.76351/post-2207141