Could D-Lactate be the source of Toxic Brain Cells and damage to Mitochondria resulting in Dysfunction and Fragmentation?

Avenger

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@Avenger you are quite right.I have experienced it myself and it is so annoying and unscientific I sometimes felt I was in the Twilight Zone.As far as I know every "Syndrome" seen as an expression of Somatization Disorder have later been proven to be a real disease.I've seen an article arguing that the existence of Somatization Disorder is not proven at all, with the criteria of the scientific method.I've looked it up again and couldn't find it but to be fair there are so many cases of Somatization Disorder that I can't imagine it not exist.

It's a very different thing though to have one or 2 symptoms that is your personal manifestation of this disorder (even "blindness" has been documented as such a manifestation) than having a specific set of symptoms, often affecting different systems, that precisely match the symptoms of many many other people.



As far as this goes, it doesn't sound wrong, depending on what they meant exactly.
It's even in one of the citations you posted.If gut flora and brain can affect each other in both directions, it's not crazy if an early psychological trauma caused a microbiome change that set a perpetual cycle that can be very hard to resolve by itself.
Hi stefanosstef,
I agree that gut flora and brain can affect each other; but so can so many other environmental factors (antibiotics can select for bacterial overgrowth alone; fluoride, chlorine, antibacterials, chemicals and some medications including proton pump inhibitors can affect the microbiome and more recently Covid-19 Virus has been found to alter the microbiome). My own belief is that causation is likely to be multifactorial. I just mistrust the Psychologists who have repeatedly taken ownership in the belief that they can stop ME/CFS purely through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy; which the article had concluded. I also agree that long term stress can have very negative effects upon all organs including the brain; and even students have been found to be at higher risk of developing colds and infections during the period of intense study.

But I see the drive from Psychology has so far been to bend the truth and take control (Pace Trials) to save money at our expense now to possibly include Long Covid. I greatly doubt that ME/CFS causation is solely the product psychological trauma and ME/CFS according to the ME Association is often found associated with Viral outbreaks or epidemics and many with ME have cited Glandular Fever and Viral infections (myself included).

I agree that a period of stress can also affect your immune system and could contribute towards any illness including ME/CFS and could well be a contributing factor or one of a number of possible factors; but....

I am basing much of this on my own experience due Psychiatrists mislabeling D-Lactic symptoms as Somatization for 18 years; because the Psychiatrists did not understand that the multiple symptoms could relate to any organic causation; and after only one short twenty minute appointment diagnosed the symptoms due to anxiety and Somatic, when I showed no anxiety even during severe symptoms, which long term caused me more stress on top of being unwell ; Then more recently finding that most of the Gastroenterologist's that I have met have little understanding of D-Lactic acidosis and no Doctors have had any understanding Bacterial Overgrowth. So there is a huge gap in training and understanding; so how can Psychiatrists make such statements with authority if they were never trained to understand the complexity or the Microbiome which may still take decades or longer to fully decode or the relationship with policing immune system or Gut/brain axis? I see the change in the microbiome towards Bacterial Overgrowth and D-Lactic acidosis in terms of an infection; and with so many negative environmental factors there seems to be more evidence of organic causation.

I have no trust in Psychiatrists and the NHS are still tying to label me with 'Chronic Fatigue Syndrome' which has been put on my discharge summary recently on two occasions and I have been told that '' D-lactic acidosis is not on the list, as it is very rare, so the doctor has selected ‘Chronic Fatigue Syndrome’ as that is the nearest option they have for abnormal fatigue''. Even though I have a diagnosis and I am prescribed cyclical antibiotics as treatment, they do not want to acknowledge D-Lactic acidosis. The system could not have tried harder to break me over the past 20 years.
 
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Avenger

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This IBS stuff is complicated. And we all vary. I have personally experienced both hard core gut problems physiological, and hard core gut problems psychological/emotional/stress. Both exist.
Hi Rufus, stefannosstef, jimbo and Bobby Peru;


My own psychological problems are mainly from being badly treated from when I fell ill and my illness was compounded by Doctors who would not believe my illness could possibly be real and left me to deal with systemic illness and frequent breathing difficulty without help.

Just out of interest, how many of you get neck stiffness during exacerbation's of worst symptoms? I never bother to include this as a symptom because the stiffness is only there when I am most ill and stops as the symptoms abate.
 
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Avenger

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I'm intrigued. Can you say more?

I'm trying to decipher my own clues:
5 positive Borrelia bands
EBV, HSV, HHV-6, CMV, Micoplasma pneumoniae, high (most over the highest measure)

I'm pretty sure there are major compromised gut factors, but which comes first, the viral loads affecting the gut or the gut spiking the viral loads? And where to start to unravel it all?
Mitochondrial Dysfunction;

I only had EBV, but at the same time as using high dosage Non Steroidals for many years, and I was also given Antibiotics and Proton Pump Inhibitors for Helicobacter infection (NSAID's can also suppress the immune system) just before becoming ill. I believe it possible that the chain of events started at this point for myself but may be different for many of us.

But I had four diagnoses of Low Mitochondrial Function, performed many years apart. 2 Mito tests by Neurologists and 2 Mito tests performed by Dr. Sarah Myhill all showing Low Function (although during moderate symptoms; this was not during an exacerbation).

The two from Neurologists stated 'Surprisingly Low Mitochondrial Function' (4 years apart); but they dismissed the results because there was nothing relating them to my Histochemistry.

Dr. Myhill believed that the results showed the cause of my Fatigue and Symptoms.

I have just realized that there is no abnormal Histochemistry with D-Lactic acidosis, so the Neurologists missed and dismissed the main clue. During serious episodes of D-Lactic acidosis there is frequently no abnormal blood investigations, so no abnormal Histochemistry, Cell activity or Genetic fault.

D-Lactate can poison you and cause Mitochondrial dysfunction without affecting normal blood investigations. No wonder is has gone under the radar for so long.

I now realize that the Neurologists were looking for a genetic fault and so dismissed my own problem because they had not understood it properly. This may have been happening for many years. I still believe that there may be many others with production of similar Organic Neurotoxins that can cause Mitochondrial Dysfunction, hence abnormal Fatigue and Multiple Symptoms which include those generated by the Neurotoxin on all Organs.

D-Lactic acidosis causes the same Mitochondrial Dysfunction Symptoms as Genetic illness, but due to Neurotoxicity which can be found also in Spinal Fluid and Brain.
 

EddieB

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Just out of interest, how many of you get neck stiffness during exacerbation's of worst symptoms
As symptoms intensify, my dull depreciating back of the neck/back of the head/ just drags on. Its with me most of the time.

so I wear these biomagnets when its more acute and I notice I' ve not worn them much lately. I was applying them frequently during- longer bouts of crashes and recoveries from problems. Its been a while since I" ve had a bit crash (fingers crossing)

these biomagnets reduce that pain to a tolerable level.