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CoQ10: Ubiquinol/ubiquinone?

Moof

Senior Member
Messages
778
Location
UK
Posting this article for the benefit of anyone recently diagnosed, who's still trying to find supplements that help. It discusses whether the much more expensive ubiquinol is really better than ubiquinone (spoiler alert: apparently it isn't).

The article isn't referenced, and my knowledge of biochemistry hovers around the zero mark, so I have no way of assessing its accuracy. But given that new patients are frequently bombarded with recommendations for supplements, I thought I'd post it to alert them to the fact that:

- It's at least worth asking questions before spending money;
- Some people find that simply using a different brand of the same supplement gives better results than buying vastly more expensive 'more bioavailable' forms.

http://www.q10qh.com/ubiquinone-or-ubiquinol-does-it-really-matter
 

Moof

Senior Member
Messages
778
Location
UK
I only looked it up because taking ubiquinol means I lose the benefits I get from CoQ10 (I've tried at least three brands over the years). I wondered if I was alone or whether there was evidence to support this. We're all different, but it does pay to try cheaper options too – I now choose to pay more for my fish oil, because low quantities of EPA and DHA means my severe eczema comes back and I also seem to have less energy. If things work, it's well worth paying for them; but as cheap CoQ10 works and top-price ubiquinol doesn't, it's one of the things I can do without!
 
Messages
151
Ubiquinol is the reduced form, and gets oxidised to ubiquinone in stomach acid anyway so they are the same. We make coq10 in the body from b5, and tyrosine so it is a non essential nutrient. Deficiency would be uncommon unless someone had a dietary b5 or tyrosine deficiency or an inborn error of cq10 metabolism.

As a general rule of thumb if something is commonly promoted (coq10, carnitine, ALA) it is non essential, and won't help many people. If something is claimed to be bad, and not promoted (PQQ, choline, soy lecithin, bakers yeast, other essential nutrient rich foods) it is good, and helpful.
 

Seven7

Seven
Messages
3,444
Location
USA
I do AMAZING on coq10 800mg twice a day. I do 400 twice a day now ( mainly due to cost).

Brand matters ( I use nature’s bounty) I actually do better on coq10 than ubíquinol and when I posted, seems to be the case for Cfs (some do better in the active form) so try both and see what works for you. If you react tot he first one then no need to switch.
 

godlovesatrier

Senior Member
Messages
2,502
Location
United Kingdom
I've been really struggling this last 8 months with increased workload at work that I don't appear to be able to escape. At the same time part of me does feel a little better than it has in the past. Even so I tried Ubiquinol to boost my overall health as I've become highly sensitive to immune boosters like reishi and ginseng etc, even anti virals like lomatium make me high as a kite. I've only been taking the ubiquinol (100mg) for about a week but I do think it's already made a big difference. One of the major things for me as that I am still able to get to sleep, with occasional difficult while taking this stuff.

Q10 was great for me in the first 18 months, it absolutely works it just gets so expensive so quickly. As @Seven (formerly lnester7) said brand is quite important.

On the ubiquinol the muscle fatigue has gone really and the subsequent issues around that have gone too. This is more like the muscle spasms and twitches associated with fatigue that lasts more than a few weeks in my case.

I do still find it interesting that a lot of the medications Ron Davis tried on his plasma test like ss-31 were q10 inspired medications. Of course it's not done anything for the inflammation really but as I have asthma it's hard to find anything for that.
 

godlovesatrier

Senior Member
Messages
2,502
Location
United Kingdom
Yeah I think there's a complex process at work here. I felt pretty fantastic for the first 2 weeks on ubiquinol. Then I went away and increased daily activity a little not loads. After about 5 days I started to get typical ME symptoms. Began with my stomach bubbling and a general unwell feeling like a tummy bug. Then turned into lethargy and yesterday went into full blown fatigue. I took 3 or 4 omega 3 and 6 capsules thismorning and over the course of about 2 to 6 hours all my cellular fatigue disappeared. It feels like I'm going into shock that feeling you get after a car accident or a bad life event but with zero adrenaline. Then the body brain and cells just start to wake up. I'm convinced this is not due to the omega 3. But the omega 3 is unblocking a very slow nutrient pathway that slows right down without good diet and supplementation.

I am sure this is true because I've had this happen 3 times over 2 years. Every single time I stopped omega 3 for a few days or weeks then I went back on it and everything woke up. Don't get me wrong I still have ME but the omega 3 seems to give me about 25% more. Plus I was feeling like garbage before I took the capsules and 30 minutes later I was much happier and brighter. Must have starved my brain of good days while on holiday.

Will keep going with the ubiquinol won't know for a while yet if it works as I keep picking up every single virus and cold going at the moment.
 
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ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
For years coQ10 powered me along, until one day it stopped working. Years of misery! I unexpectedly learned recently that CoQ10 absorption is impeded by low levels of NADH, and since going onto that ... the COQ10 is having its full impact again. Such a relief!

can NADH be subbed for ribose? ie, are they related at all?

2nd - what CoQ10 brand do you use? not sure if I should use CoQ10, ubiquinol or ubiquinone..

thx
 

godlovesatrier

Senior Member
Messages
2,502
Location
United Kingdom
I took 100 and 50mg of ubiquinol for about 5 weeks. But the initial help seemed to wear off. Then I had a bit of a crash which coincided with me stopping it. But I was really stressed out at the time.

Does anyone still take ubiquinol daily or every few days month in month out? I don't see mention of it working long term for anyone and wonder who takes it. Am interested in ubiquinol not q10 as I know q10 is stable but the effects less dramatic.

@ebethc Just wanted to say I've always used any brand of q10 and it's worked. I think I bought natures best for ubiquinol but the side effects were not great for me, bad headaches and terrible jaw/gum pain and tightness. But my energy was great. Hope that helps. Ubiquinone you don't want - I forget why but it's not the one you want to take. This Dr has some advise: https://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Co-enzyme_Q10_in_Chronic_Fatigue_Syndrome

Thanks :)
 
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ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
@ebethc Just wanted to say I've always used any brand of q10 and it's worked. I think I bought natures best for ubiquinol but the side effects were not great for me, bad headaches and terrible jaw/gum pain and tightness. But my energy was great. Hope that helps. Ubiquinone you don't want - I forget why but it's not the one you want to take. This Dr has some advise: https://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Co-enzyme_Q10_in_Chronic_Fatigue_Syndrome

what do you think of coq10/ubiquinol VS alcar (acetyl l carnitine) VS ribose to get mitochondrial energy moving?
(btw - not sure that ribose should be in the same comparison...)

I've been doing some reading and I think that I can get alcar from eating more high quality red meat, so I'm thinking ubiquinol + ribose right now.

having good luck w NAC and ALA currently, too.
 

godlovesatrier

Senior Member
Messages
2,502
Location
United Kingdom
I crash taking ribose.

Carnitine and ubiquinol wil be fine together. Based on my reading last night the amounts of q10 you get from food are not nearly enough. I recomend 500mg q10 per day. At the least.

Glad NAC and ALA are helping, never did much for me that I noticed sadly.
 
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godlovesatrier

Senior Member
Messages
2,502
Location
United Kingdom

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
I crash taking ribose.

Carnitine and ubiquinol wil be fine together. Based on my reading last night the amounts of q10 you get from food are not nearly enough. I recomend 500mg q10 per day. At the least.

Glad NAC and ALA are helping, never did much for me that I noticed sadly.
It's individual. I take 100mg of ubiquinol and 10mg MitoQ daily and I always test high normal for CoQ10. Some people need up yo 24g a day.
what do you think of coq10/ubiquinol VS alcar (acetyl l carnitine) VS ribose to get mitochondrial energy moving?
(btw - not sure that ribose should be in the same comparison...)

I've been doing some reading and I think that I can get alcar from eating more high quality red meat, so I'm thinking ubiquinol + ribose right now.

having good luck w NAC and ALA currently, too.
Ubiquinol, ALCAR, NAC, and ALA all do different things to help mitochondria. One may need all of them. Other helpful nutrients are riboflavin and manganese.

If you're responding to ALA and NAC, that may indicate you're dealing with a lot of oxidative stress. As antioxidants work together in a network, you may find you also need C, A, E, or plant based antioxidants like anthracyanins.

I found that upping ALA, A, and E made a significant positive difference in my energy.
 
Messages
16
can NADH be subbed for ribose? ie, are they related at all?

2nd - what CoQ10 brand do you use? not sure if I should use CoQ10, ubiquinol or ubiquinone..

thx

NADH is another CoEnzyme, like COQ10, but Ribose is a sugar, so theyre quite different. I'm on 30mg of CoQ10, or 60mg for a demanding day - I've sometimes gone up to 100 but that really interferes with my sleep. Start on a low dose and build up. I've tried several brands, all equally effective in my view