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Confusion about therapy related to norepinephrine

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
I've never been in contact with EBV
But my HPA axis certainly dysfunctional
I don't see any difference when using high quality CBD
Maybe the dosing and it does take time to start to overcome the issues unfortunately. You may benefit from combining it with caryophyllene to add the impressive immune modulation it gives.

Brain inflammation from M1 activated microglia I believe drives dysfunction of the HPA axis via disrupting normal functioning of the PVN of the hypothalamus.
Caryophyllene changes the microglia from M1 to M2 which just means they are then behaving and being nice and anti inflammatory instead of inflammatory.

Many people never know they have EBV.

Epstein-Barr Virus Infection - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
Most EBV infections are clinically silent; however, there may be an infectious mononucleosis syndrome, hepatitis, and post-transplant lymphoproliferative disease (PTLD)
 

judyinthesky

Senior Member
Messages
373
Maybe the dosing and it does take time to start to overcome the issues unfortunately. You may benefit from combining it with caryophyllene to add the impressive immune modulation it gives.

Brain inflammation from M1 activated microglia I believe drives dysfunction of the HPA axis via disrupting normal functioning of the PVN of the hypothalamus.
Caryophyllene changes the microglia from M1 to M2 which just means they are then behaving and being nice and anti inflammatory instead of inflammatory.

Many people never know they have EBV.

Epstein-Barr Virus Infection - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
Most EBV infections are clinically silent; however, there may be an infectious mononucleosis syndrome, hepatitis, and post-transplant lymphoproliferative disease (PTLD)

Thanks I'll check the C.ph out but I don't know what else I should try with timing and dosage. I don't even feel ANY effects.

I have adverse reactions to cannabis though

I can only go by my EBV antibody results the rest will remain speculation.
 

judyinthesky

Senior Member
Messages
373
Maybe the dosing and it does take time to start to overcome the issues unfortunately. You may benefit from combining it with caryophyllene to add the impressive immune modulation it gives.

Brain inflammation from M1 activated microglia I believe drives dysfunction of the HPA axis via disrupting normal functioning of the PVN of the hypothalamus.
Caryophyllene changes the microglia from M1 to M2 which just means they are then behaving and being nice and anti inflammatory instead of inflammatory.

Many people never know they have EBV.

Epstein-Barr Virus Infection - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
Most EBV infections are clinically silent; however, there may be an infectious mononucleosis syndrome, hepatitis, and post-transplant lymphoproliferative disease (PTLD)

So how would you administer this drug? I don't find anything apart from oils.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
Thanks I'll check the C.ph out but I don't know what else I should try with timing and dosage. I don't even feel ANY effects.

I have adverse reactions to cannabis though

I can only go by my EBV antibody results the rest will remain speculation.
It could be any number of pathogens but really its just immune dysregulation we have to try to correct and the dysregulated HPA axis.

CBD does not make you high like THC and it will depend on dosing the benefit you will gain over time. The only thing it should make you feel is improved symptoms but it can take around a month of consistent use like some medications that increase endogenous. However when paired with caryophyllene this can cause more immune awakening from what I understand now so could cause a kind of back and forth from improved symptoms and back again to improved. This is just the immune system correcting and awakening to pathogens to clear. You may however benefit more right now from the anti inflammatory effect caryophyllene has on brain inflammation. Depending on your phenotype of ME/CFS there will be a certain way to do this best.
Brain inflammation seems to be bad for you from what you say. Do you take the CBD by swallowing or under the tongue may be the reason you have not seen benefit. Under the tongue to reach the brain. Swallow for gut improvements ect.

If you tell me how you take it, how much, when, what brand so I can look it up I will be able to make some suggestions to you based on my experience and what I have learnt about it and maybe we can get you feeling a bit better.

I want to help if I can.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
So how would you administer this drug? I don't find anything apart from oils.
In gelatin capsules if you swallow it (mainly gut health, important)and Sublingually from a dropper under the tongue (brain and nervous system).
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
A little too many abbreviations for my brain in this one

Are you saying there's a useful lab test for those low on certain Catecholamines and is this available in a common lab? BH4 you mean?
I'm sorry you don't like abbreviations. ME/CFS stands for myalgia encephalomyelitis/ chronic fatigue syndrome. NO stands for nitric oxide.

BH4 stands for tetrahydrobioterin, if you prefer to write it all out like that. PKU stands for phenyletoneuria, a condition of BH4 deficiency. HDRI,, As I mentioned previously, is a lab in New Jersey, Health Diagnostics and Research Institute That tests nitrottyrosine, a marker of peroxynitrites caused by BH4 deficiency.

If you are worried about being short of neurotransmitters, it might be helpful to understand how they are made. As you can see by this diagram, BH4 is rather important:
Screenshot_20220811-125201~2.png
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Dear all!
Even before having ME in the sense of fatigue (my first symptom was change of HPA axis and extreme wiredness), I measured low on both adrenaline/ephedrine and noradrenaline/norepinephrine. This is always the case, in 24 hour urine testing as well as in salvia.

I am aware that many ME medication trials involve increase of noradrenaline such as in antidepressants.
But I usually react badly to them. I've tried Mirtazapine which increases noradrenaline and was wired, but at the same time it felt like it changed something important in my brain (brain terror issues are my worst symptom,)

Now my ME expert wants me to try Catapresan, which lowers norepinephrine.

I have problems with inflammatory, but not situational depression.

I'm extremely confused about my low adrenaline. My cortisol is low in salvia in the morning, but normal in blood. (Seems to be that in ME people it's often reversed or fucked up).

Is there anyone who also has low noradrenaline?
Or has experience with medication only working on noradrenaline?

I'm really reacting extreme to many psych meds. It's like my body would need it as per lab, but is in such an extremely wired state that I don't manage to get onto them.

Experience with Catapresan or similar?

Love, Judith
Yes, maybe you have tetrahydrobiopterin deficiency.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
I'm sorry you don't like abbreviations. ME/CFS stands for myalgia encephalomyelitis/ chronic fatigue syndrome. NO stands for nitric oxide.

BH4 stands for tetrahydrobioterin, if you prefer to write it all out like that. PKU stands for phenyletoneuria, a condition of BH4 deficiency. HDRI,, As I mentioned previously, is a lab in New Jersey, Health Diagnostics and Research Institute That tests nitrottyrosine, a marker of peroxynitrites caused by BH4 deficiency.

If you are worried about being short of neurotransmitters, it might be helpful to understand how they are made. As you can see by this diagram, BH4 is rather important:
View attachment 48830
Yes, maybe you have tetrahydrobiopterin deficiency.
This is all correct, but why? I am not being funny with you just I have been down this route in all the biological processes and it comes down to what does this stem from. What is it, all the way upstream that is causing all this.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,952
This is all correct, but why? I am not being funny with you just I have been down this route in all the biological processes and it comes down to what does this stem from. What is it, all the way upstream that is causing all this.

Martin Pall's theory about oxidative stress being the cause of the symptoms related to ME/CFS seems very apt, but I've been thinking that it would be beneficial to find the cause of the oxidative stress.

Also, ameliorating Bh4 deficiency is one of his recommended ways of dealing with the oxidative stress.

So I found this:
"Peroxynitrite is known to oxidize BH4, and consequently partial uncoupling may initiate a vicious cycle, propagating the partial uncoupling over time. The combination of high NOS activity and BH4 depletion will lead to a potential vicious cycle that may be expected to switch on the larger NO/ONOO- cycle, thus producing the symptoms and signs of chronic illness. The role of peroxynitrite in the NO/ONOO- cycle also implies that such uncoupling is part of the chronic phase cycle mechanism such that agents that lower uncoupling will be useful in treatment.

So at least one reason for Bh4 deficiency can be oxidative stress.

So what is causing the oxidative stress. I read one source that said that it was coming from the electron transport chain, but I haven't been able to find that source.

But I'll keep looking.

This article talks about oxidative stress in the electron transport chain, not sure if it has the information we need, though.

Oxidative stress, mitochondrial damage and neurodegenerative diseases

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4145906/

Oxidative stress and mitochondrial damage have been implicated in the pathogenesis of several neurodegenerative diseases, including Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. Oxidative stress is characterized by the overproduction of reactive oxygen species, which can induce mitochondrial DNA mutations, damage the mitochondrial respiratory chain, alter membrane permeability, and influence Ca2+ homeostasis and mitochondrial defense systems. All these changes are implicated in the development of these neurodegenerative diseases, mediating or amplifying neuronal dysfunction and triggering neurodegeneration. This paper summarizes the contribution of oxidative stress and mitochondrial damage to the onset of neurodegenerative eases and discusses strategies to modify mitochondrial dysfunction that may be attractive therapeutic interventions for the treatment of various neurodegenerative diseases.
 
Last edited:

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,952
It will be interesting to see if CBD or caryophyllene has a beneficial effect on the electron transport chain, and reduces oxidative stress.

Functional Analysis of Mitochondrial CB1 Cannabinoid Receptors (mtCB1) in the Brain

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28750801/

Then, we address the study of direct cannabinoid effects on the electron transport system and oxidative phosphorylation.
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
Oxidative stress is characterized by the overproduction of reactive oxygen species, which can induce mitochondrial DNA mutations, damage the mitochondrial respiratory chain, alter membrane permeability, and influence Ca2+ homeostasis and mitochondrial defense systems. All these changes are implicated in the development of these neurodegenerative diseases, mediating or amplifying neuronal dysfunction and triggering neurodegeneration
It is simply yet again the suppressed cannabinoids system that is causing this.
Ca2+ homeostasis, overproduction of reactive oxygen species, mitochondrial defense and membrane permeability, mitochondrial DNA mutations. All these things are modulated by the cannabinoid system
This paper summarizes the contribution of oxidative stress and mitochondrial damage to the onset of neurodegenerative eases and discusses strategies to modify mitochondrial dysfunction that may be attractive therapeutic interventions for the treatment of various neurodegenerative diseases.
This is why cannabis is helpful for everything basically. It is so far upstream of all the processes involved and has such wide involvement in all of them when you go over it all, many conditions are essentially caused by the same thing, perturbations of the cannabinoid system. The Cannabinoid system is the rest, sleep, digest and recover system to the HPA axis flight or fight, wake, alert system. The two are supposed to balance one another but can be disrupted in many ways.
It will be interesting to see if CBD or caryophyllene has a beneficial effect on the electron transport chain, and reduces oxidative stress.
Yes they both do, CB1 and CB2 activation by CBD indirectly by increase endogenous cannabinoids and CB2 by Caryophyllene as well as other affects mediated by other receptor systems they act on.

The Endocannabinoid System and PPARs: Focus on Their Signalling Crosstalk, Action and Transcriptional Regulation - PMC (nih.gov)
Abstract
Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs) are a family of nuclear receptors including PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ, acting as transcription factors to regulate the expression of a plethora of target genes involved in metabolism, immune reaction, cell differentiation, and a variety of other cellular changes and adaptive responses. PPARs are activated by a large number of both endogenous and exogenous lipid molecules, including phyto- and endo-cannabinoids, as well as endocannabinoid-like compounds. In this view, they can be considered an extension of the endocannabinoid system. Besides being directly activated by cannabinoids, PPARs are also indirectly modulated by receptors and enzymes regulating the activity and metabolism of endocannabinoids, and, vice versa, the expression of these receptors and enzymes may be regulated by PPARs. In this review, we provide an overview of the crosstalk between cannabinoids and PPARs, and the importance of their reciprocal regulation and modulation by common ligands, including those belonging to the extended endocannabinoid system (or “endocannabinoidome”) in the control of major physiological and pathophysiological functions.

1660571620595.png


Cannabinoids and Mitochondria | SpringerLink
Abstract
Mitochondria are key organelles providing energy supply and many other vital functions to cells. Shortly after the discovery of plant-derived cannabinoid compounds, some studies indicated their impact onto mitochondrial functions. The later identification of cannabinoid receptors as classical seven-transmembrane G protein-coupled receptors suggested that these mitochondrial effects might be due to unspecific membrane-altering properties of cannabinoids. However, the recent discovery that brain mitochondria contain significant amounts of functional type-1 cannabinoid receptors (CB1) shed new light on cannabinoid physiology and pharmacology. In this chapter, we will summarize historical and recent evidence of the cannabinoid impact on mitochondrial functions in peripheral and central organs of the body.

Regulatory Effects of Cannabidiol on Mitochondrial Functions: A Review - PMC (nih.gov)
Abstract
Cannabidiol (CBD) is part of a group of phytocannabinoids derived from Cannabis sativa. Initial work on CBD presumed the compound was inactive, but it was later found to exhibit antipsychotic, anti-depressive, anxiolytic, and antiepileptic effects. In recent decades, evidence has indicated a role for CBD in the modulation of mitochondrial processes, including respiration and bioenergetics, mitochondrial DNA epigenetics, intrinsic apoptosis, the regulation of mitochondrial and intracellular calcium concentrations, mitochondrial fission, fusion and biogenesis, and mitochondrial ferritin concentration and mitochondrial monoamine oxidase activity regulation. Despite these advances, current data demonstrate contradictory findings with regard to not only the magnitude of effects mediated by CBD, but also to the direction of effects. For example, there are data indicating that CBD treatment can increase, decrease, or have no significant effect on intrinsic apoptosis. Differences between studies in cell type, cell-specific response to CBD, and, in some cases, dose of CBD may help to explain differences in outcomes. Most studies on CBD and mitochondria have utilized treatment concentrations that exceed the highest recorded plasma concentrations in humans, suggesting that future studies should focus on CBD treatments within a range observed in pharmacokinetic studies. This review focuses on understanding the mechanisms of CBD-mediated regulation of mitochondrial functions, with an emphasis on findings in neural cells and tissues and therapeutic relevance based on human pharmacokinetics.

Cannabinoids in Neurodegenerative Disorders and Stroke/Brain Trauma: From Preclinical Models to Clinical Applications - PMC (nih.gov)
Abstract
Cannabinoids form a singular family of plant-derived compounds (phytocannabinoids), endogenous signaling lipids (endocannabinoids), and synthetic derivatives with multiple biological effects and therapeutic applications in the central and peripheral nervous systems. One of these properties is the regulation of neuronal homeostasis and survival, which is the result of the combination of a myriad of effects addressed to preserve, rescue, repair, and/or replace neurons, and also glial cells against multiple insults that may potentially damage these cells. These effects are facilitated by the location of specific targets for the action of these compounds (e.g., cannabinoid type 1 and 2 receptors, endocannabinoid inactivating enzymes, and nonendocannabinoid targets) in key cellular substrates (e.g., neurons, glial cells, and neural progenitor cells). This potential is promising for acute and chronic neurodegenerative pathological conditions. In this review, we will collect all experimental evidence, mainly obtained at the preclinical level, supporting that different cannabinoid compounds may be neuroprotective in adult and neonatal ischemia, brain trauma, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, Huntington’s chorea, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. This increasing experimental evidence demands a prompt clinical validation of cannabinoid-based medicines for the treatment of all these disorders, which, at present, lack efficacious treatments for delaying/arresting disease progression, despite the fact that the few clinical trials conducted so far with these medicines have failed to demonstrate beneficial effects.

1660570658019.png


Cannabinoids Enhance NMDA-Elicited Ca2+ Signals in Cerebellar Granule Neurons in Culture | Journal of Neuroscience (jneurosci.org)
Abstract
A physiological role for cannabinoids in the CNS is indicated by the presence of endogenous cannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors. However, the cellular mechanisms of cannabinoid actions in the CNS have yet to be fully defined. In the current study, we identified a novel action of cannabinoids to enhance intracellular Ca2+responses in CNS neurons. Acute application of the cannabinoid receptor agonists R(+)-methanandamide, R(+)-WIN, and HU-210 (1–50 nm) dose-dependently enhanced the peak amplitude of the Ca2+ response elicited by stimulation of the NMDA subtype of glutamate receptors (NMDARs) in cerebellar granule neurons. The cannabinoid effect was blocked by the cannabinoid receptor antagonist SR141716A and the Gi/Go protein inhibitor pertussis toxin but was not mimicked by the inactive cannabinoid analogS(−)-WIN, indicating the involvement of cannabinoid receptors. In current-clamp studies neither R(+)-WIN norR(+)-methanandamide altered the membrane response to NMDA or passive membrane properties of granule neurons, suggesting that NMDARs are not the primary sites of cannabinoid action. Additional Ca2+ imaging studies showed that cannabinoid enhancement of the Ca2+ signal to NMDA did not involve N-, P-, or L-type Ca2+ channels but was dependent on Ca2+ release from intracellular stores. Moreover, the phospholipase C inhibitor U-73122 and the inositol 1,4,5-trisphosphate (IP3) receptor antagonist xestospongin C blocked the cannabinoid effect, suggesting that the cannabinoid enhancement of NMDA-evoked Ca2+ signals results from enhanced release from IP3-sensitive Ca2+ stores. These data suggest that the CNS cannabinoid system could serve a critical modulatory role in CNS neurons through the regulation of intracellular Ca2+signaling.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,952
It is simply yet again the suppressed cannabinoids system that is causing this.
Ca2+ homeostasis, overproduction of reactive oxygen species, mitochondrial defense and membrane permeability, mitochondrial DNA mutations. All these things are modulated by the cannabinoid system

This is why cannabis is helpful for everything basically. It is so far upstream of all the processes involved and has such wide involvement in all of them when you go over it all, many conditions are essentially caused by the same thing, perturbations of the cannabinoid system. The Cannabinoid system is the rest, sleep, digest and recover system to the HPA axis flight or fight, wake, alert system. The two are supposed to balance one another but can be disrupted in many ways.

Yes they both do, CB1 and CB2 activation by CBD indirectly by increase endogenous cannabinoids and CB2 by Caryophyllene as well as other affects mediated by other receptor systems they act on.

The Endocannabinoid System and PPARs: Focus on Their Signalling Crosstalk, Action and Transcriptional Regulation - PMC (nih.gov)
Abstract
Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs) are a family of nuclear receptors including PPARα, PPARγ, and PPARβ/δ, acting as transcription factors to regulate the expression of a plethora of target genes involved in metabolism, immune reaction, cell differentiation, and a variety of other cellular changes and adaptive responses. PPARs are activated by a large number of both endogenous and exogenous lipid molecules, including phyto- and endo-cannabinoids, as well as endocannabinoid-like compounds. In this view, they can be considered an extension of the endocannabinoid system. Besides being directly activated by cannabinoids, PPARs are also indirectly modulated by receptors and enzymes regulating the activity and metabolism of endocannabinoids, and, vice versa, the expression of these receptors and enzymes may be regulated by PPARs. In this review, we provide an overview of the crosstalk between cannabinoids and PPARs, and the importance of their reciprocal regulation and modulation by common ligands, including those belonging to the extended endocannabinoid system (or “endocannabinoidome”) in the control of major physiological and pathophysiological functions.

View attachment 48874

Cannabinoids and Mitochondria | SpringerLink
Abstract
Mitochondria are key organelles providing energy supply and many other vital functions to cells. Shortly after the discovery of plant-derived cannabinoid compounds, some studies indicated their impact onto mitochondrial functions. The later identification of cannabinoid receptors as classical seven-transmembrane G protein-coupled receptors suggested that these mitochondrial effects might be due to unspecific membrane-altering properties of cannabinoids. However, the recent discovery that brain mitochondria contain significant amounts of functional type-1 cannabinoid receptors (CB1) shed new light on cannabinoid physiology and pharmacology. In this chapter, we will summarize historical and recent evidence of the cannabinoid impact on mitochondrial functions in peripheral and central organs of the body.

Regulatory Effects of Cannabidiol on Mitochondrial Functions: A Review - PMC (nih.gov)
Abstract
Cannabidiol (CBD) is part of a group of phytocannabinoids derived from Cannabis sativa. Initial work on CBD presumed the compound was inactive, but it was later found to exhibit antipsychotic, anti-depressive, anxiolytic, and antiepileptic effects. In recent decades, evidence has indicated a role for CBD in the modulation of mitochondrial processes, including respiration and bioenergetics, mitochondrial DNA epigenetics, intrinsic apoptosis, the regulation of mitochondrial and intracellular calcium concentrations, mitochondrial fission, fusion and biogenesis, and mitochondrial ferritin concentration and mitochondrial monoamine oxidase activity regulation. Despite these advances, current data demonstrate contradictory findings with regard to not only the magnitude of effects mediated by CBD, but also to the direction of effects. For example, there are data indicating that CBD treatment can increase, decrease, or have no significant effect on intrinsic apoptosis. Differences between studies in cell type, cell-specific response to CBD, and, in some cases, dose of CBD may help to explain differences in outcomes. Most studies on CBD and mitochondria have utilized treatment concentrations that exceed the highest recorded plasma concentrations in humans, suggesting that future studies should focus on CBD treatments within a range observed in pharmacokinetic studies. This review focuses on understanding the mechanisms of CBD-mediated regulation of mitochondrial functions, with an emphasis on findings in neural cells and tissues and therapeutic relevance based on human pharmacokinetics.

Cannabinoids in Neurodegenerative Disorders and Stroke/Brain Trauma: From Preclinical Models to Clinical Applications - PMC (nih.gov)
Abstract
Cannabinoids form a singular family of plant-derived compounds (phytocannabinoids), endogenous signaling lipids (endocannabinoids), and synthetic derivatives with multiple biological effects and therapeutic applications in the central and peripheral nervous systems. One of these properties is the regulation of neuronal homeostasis and survival, which is the result of the combination of a myriad of effects addressed to preserve, rescue, repair, and/or replace neurons, and also glial cells against multiple insults that may potentially damage these cells. These effects are facilitated by the location of specific targets for the action of these compounds (e.g., cannabinoid type 1 and 2 receptors, endocannabinoid inactivating enzymes, and nonendocannabinoid targets) in key cellular substrates (e.g., neurons, glial cells, and neural progenitor cells). This potential is promising for acute and chronic neurodegenerative pathological conditions. In this review, we will collect all experimental evidence, mainly obtained at the preclinical level, supporting that different cannabinoid compounds may be neuroprotective in adult and neonatal ischemia, brain trauma, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, Huntington’s chorea, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. This increasing experimental evidence demands a prompt clinical validation of cannabinoid-based medicines for the treatment of all these disorders, which, at present, lack efficacious treatments for delaying/arresting disease progression, despite the fact that the few clinical trials conducted so far with these medicines have failed to demonstrate beneficial effects.

View attachment 48873

Cannabinoids Enhance NMDA-Elicited Ca2+ Signals in Cerebellar Granule Neurons in Culture | Journal of Neuroscience (jneurosci.org)
Abstract
A physiological role for cannabinoids in the CNS is indicated by the presence of endogenous cannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors. However, the cellular mechanisms of cannabinoid actions in the CNS have yet to be fully defined. In the current study, we identified a novel action of cannabinoids to enhance intracellular Ca2+responses in CNS neurons. Acute application of the cannabinoid receptor agonists R(+)-methanandamide, R(+)-WIN, and HU-210 (1–50 nm) dose-dependently enhanced the peak amplitude of the Ca2+ response elicited by stimulation of the NMDA subtype of glutamate receptors (NMDARs) in cerebellar granule neurons. The cannabinoid effect was blocked by the cannabinoid receptor antagonist SR141716A and the Gi/Go protein inhibitor pertussis toxin but was not mimicked by the inactive cannabinoid analogS(−)-WIN, indicating the involvement of cannabinoid receptors. In current-clamp studies neither R(+)-WIN norR(+)-methanandamide altered the membrane response to NMDA or passive membrane properties of granule neurons, suggesting that NMDARs are not the primary sites of cannabinoid action. Additional Ca2+ imaging studies showed that cannabinoid enhancement of the Ca2+ signal to NMDA did not involve N-, P-, or L-type Ca2+ channels but was dependent on Ca2+ release from intracellular stores. Moreover, the phospholipase C inhibitor U-73122 and the inositol 1,4,5-trisphosphate (IP3) receptor antagonist xestospongin C blocked the cannabinoid effect, suggesting that the cannabinoid enhancement of NMDA-evoked Ca2+ signals results from enhanced release from IP3-sensitive Ca2+ stores. These data suggest that the CNS cannabinoid system could serve a critical modulatory role in CNS neurons through the regulation of intracellular Ca2+signaling.


Great studies!
 

judyinthesky

Senior Member
Messages
373
I'm sorry you don't like abbreviations. ME/CFS stands for myalgia encephalomyelitis/ chronic fatigue syndrome. NO stands for nitric oxide.

BH4 stands for tetrahydrobioterin, if you prefer to write it all out like that. PKU stands for phenyletoneuria, a condition of BH4 deficiency. HDRI,, As I mentioned previously, is a lab in New Jersey, Health Diagnostics and Research Institute That tests nitrottyrosine, a marker of peroxynitrites caused by BH4 deficiency.

If you are worried about being short of neurotransmitters, it might be helpful to understand how they are made. As you can see by this diagram, BH4 is rather important:
View attachment 48830

I'm looking
 

judyinthesky

Senior Member
Messages
373
Sorry guys been too bad to follow this thread.

It's not a matter of not liking abbreviations, my brain just can't process

As for the cbd, I've tried the cbd vital high spectrum one at least for a month, and I sometimes do still take it, but it does not change the whole game. Maybe it makes me a tiny little bit more sleepy at night but as I have to take a benzo anyways to be able to eat.. I don't see much difference.

As for the bh4 I'm low on tryptophan already, just a little, but trying to take it made me worse last time so will have to try again maybe. But there seems to be something off earlier in the chain

I also have severe pancreas insufficiency and problems with protein digestion and keeping weight. Very severe and spinal leak

Sorry for not being able to follow as I would like to.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,952
Sorry guys been too bad to follow this thread.

It's not a matter of not liking abbreviations, my brain just can't process

As for the cbd, I've tried the cbd vital high spectrum one at least for a month, and I sometimes do still take it, but it does not change the whole game. Maybe it makes me a tiny little bit more sleepy at night but as I have to take a benzo anyways to be able to eat.. I don't see much difference.

As for the bh4 I'm low on tryptophan already, just a little, but trying to take it made me worse last time so will have to try again maybe. But there seems to be something off earlier in the chain

I also have severe pancreas insufficiency and problems with protein digestion and keeping weight. Very severe and spinal leak

Sorry for not being able to follow as I would like to.
No need to apologize. I hope you feel better.
 
Messages
4
I think you have overactive HPA axis issues with a thyroid issue, low blood pressure unsure, but looks like your adrenals are handling it still. Your current condition may be driven just by the brain inflammation in ME/CFS affecting the PVN of the hypothalamus rather than in conjuntion with Adrenal insuffciency due to fatigue or atrophy as a later stage like many of us do I suspect. Have you had a really chill life and avoided stress as much as possible or maybe just super strong adrenals :)
But the reaction to DHEA i am unsure, maybe the imbalance in the sex hormones is causing it.

blacking out when standing up too fast= blood pressure related/POTS ME/CFS.

hypothalamicpituitaryadrenal axis (HPA axis or HTPA axis).

Hormonal stress response (openanesthesia.org)
Stress Response

Increased release of

  • Sympathetic Nervous System: norepinephrine (spillover from nerve endings)
  • Adrenal Medulla: epinephrine
  • Adrenal Cortex: cortisol
  • Pancreas: insulin, glucagon, and somatostatin
Decreased release of:

  • Hypothalamus: gonadotropin-releasing hormone (hypogonadotropic hypogonadism)

Changes in:

  • Thyroid hormones: normal TSH and free T4, decreased T3 and bound T3, increased reverse T3, “sick euthyroid syndrome


Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone (GnRH): Purpose & Testing (clevelandclinic.org)
The pituitary gland in your endocrine system uses gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) to stimulate the production of follicle-stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone. These gonadotropins (hormones) make the sex hormones testosterone, estrogen and progesterone.

Stress | Progesterone-info
Because progesterone and it's metabolites and strong anxiolytics, reduce the response to stress and overworked adrenals. The stress hormone cortisol is also made in the adrenals which first produce progesterone before converting it to cortisol.

Looks to me like being high in cortisol means being low in progesterone.

Being high in Cortisol indicates your stress response (HPA axis) is overactive.

Stress response causes decrease of gonadotropin-releasing hormone.

Decrease of gonadotropin-releasing hormone causes lower production of progesterone and increase in cortisol.

Looks to me like the stress response (triggered HPA axis) causes progesterone to be converted to cortisol.

So overactive stress response can lead to low Progesterone.

Overactive HPA axis is being driven by the brain dysregulation/inflammation caused by ME/CFS, caused by ? EBV maybe or something else.

You likely have a separate issues with the thyroid and blood pressure (genetic maybe).

I am not a doctor just my opinion when asked on the internet ;)


No, not adrenal burnout yet it seems. Exercise stimulates anandamide production and with your good adrenal state makes it possible to hack your body by exercising to make more anandamide and this is why it helps and gives you energy and improves things for you. Many of us do this before we biologically snap and go full on ME/CFS.

Exercise-Induced Endocannabinoids Boost Brain Plasticity | Psychology Today
Exercise works on the endocannabinoid system in two ways. It increases blood levels of anandamide and improves the sensitivity of anandamide receptors

We keep pushing and pushing and just one day we just brake or someone gives us a vaccine that pushes us over the edge biologically. The initial trigger (pathogen/immune insult) may have been silient for some time or not.


Maybe a period when your adrenals were struggling.
Thanks for your response! I was used to my posts never getting posted so I didn't bother to check back. So do you have a protocol for how to deal with the brain infection that causes CFS with CBD? I would love to know it. I am very interested in this because my dad died of dementia at age 78, and my first son has level 2 Autism. I was told by my spirit guides that I have a huge list of infections, they said my immune system is weak because I am sad. (I have been a vegan for over 30 years and the way humans treat the animals causes unbearable pain in my soul). I'm studying the Emotion Code on how to release this pain and address this part of the problem.

I know I have Morgellons disease (which I control with a skin regimen and avoid people carrying the Collembola - yes I know it sounds crazy) and Candida has spread all over my body. I do react to moldy wet days. When I try to kill it I go into serious detox issues. I have major mercury exposure in my life from using Mercurochrome, unsafe amalgam removal, vaccines as a child.

I was forced to get an MMR booster vaccine to enter college, and after the vaccine my whole body went numb for several hours and I developed CFS. It took me 7-8 years to get out of it by eating a RAW vegan diet and taking magnesium. I'm currently on a Keto Vegan diet. I have probably 200 bottles of supplements, I have tried and experimented with. I eat raw garlic daily now for 15 years and I think it slowly pulled the mercury out of my body. So mercury no longer a problem maybe? But I know dementia is a possibility for me unless I figure this out, because dementia (dad) and autism (son) are on either side of me. I also suspect I am an undiagnosed adult female with autism. I have my two sons on the Nemecheck Protocol.

By the way, if this information helps any one; I had severe SIBO for 15 years, could not figure out how to cure it, sky high histamine issues. I could not eat high histamine foods. I took ONE specific probiotic and it was gone. It turns out my SIBO was an e-coli gut infection. I took Phage and DE111 and it's gone. I think the e-coli even infected my vagus nerve because I was blacking out when I looked down.

So I am very interested in how you use CBD to alter/correct the brain inflammation, assuming it is a brain infection. I often wonder if the brain is infected by fungus, lyme or other bacteria, or viruses such as EBV. Could it even be herpes? My dad's case is very sad, he was unable to even swallow at the end and when they tried to give him IV fluids, they could not be processed, the basic functions of his brain destroyed. I couldn't help him, my parents were sticking to allopathic treatments. He also had major pesticide exposure.
 
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By the way, hair analysis in 2018 shows mercury not such as issue. It shows aluminum highest but not too bad. I have great energy levels now as long as I do everything correctly; daily exercise, raw vegan keto diet, sunlight, grounding, sleep, adrenal supplements, B vitamins, adaptogens (I switch around but right now Garden of Life), magnesium is crucial, and I take vitamins that help the thyroid sometimes such as selenium and zinc. I take milk thistle, liver loves it. I avoid stress at all costs, so I live like a hermit. But I would like to correct this low blood pressure - passing out when I stand up, low body temperature, veins are never constricted, always expanded, blood sugar involved too. I wonder if Candida alone can cause this? But if it is a brain infection and based on my dads dementia, I would say yes, then it must be dealt with.

I have two other things that might be at play here: I have a b12 trap going on, so do my siblings. I have sky high B12 levels on a blood test. I also have sulfation issues which is linked to autism. I get severe headache if I put elemental sulfur on my skin. I know molybdenum helps this, still working on this issue. When I first took molybdenum I got a headache, then I learned how it works.
 
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By the way, hair analysis in 2018 shows mercury not such as issue. It shows aluminum highest but not too bad. I have great energy levels now as long as I do everything correctly; daily exercise, raw vegan keto diet, sunlight, grounding, sleep, adrenal supplements, B vitamins, adaptogens (I switch around but right now Garden of Life), magnesium is crucial, and I take vitamins that help the thyroid sometimes such as selenium and zinc. I take milk thistle, liver loves it. I avoid stress at all costs, so I live like a hermit. But I would like to correct this low blood pressure - passing out when I stand up, low body temperature, veins are never constricted, always expanded, blood sugar involved too. I wonder if Candida alone can cause this? But if it is a brain infection and based on my dads dementia, I would say yes, then it must be dealt with.

I have two other things that might be at play here: I have a b12 trap going on, so do my siblings. I have sky high B12 levels on a blood test. I also have sulfation issues which is linked to autism. I get severe headache if I put elemental sulfur on my skin. I know molybdenum helps this, still working on this issue. When I first took molybdenum I got a headache, then I learned how it works.

Vegan diet increases the risk of many nutritional deficiencies and the low protein bioavailability from veganism can lead to low body temperature, low blood pressure. If you are vegan you need to be getting iodine from either seaweed or a supplement because there's no other source for vegans. If not, you will become hypothyroid which can also cause low body temperature and low blood pressure by reducing sensitivity to catecholamines.