Cold showers !

[Jo86]

I've started today. Heard about it for a while but decided I was going to give it a go for at least a while.

Here are some of the benefits Dr. Eric Berg mentions (video below):
- boosts immunity
- boosts noradrenaline
- improves mood
- increased insulin sensitivity (rather than dangerous insulin resistance)
- anti-inflammatory
- neuroprotection
- better recovery (muscles in particular)


People often recommend one should start with a hot shower, then go to cold, and switch back and forth between the two. I'm doing from average, to cold, incrementally over the span of about 2min then keep it for another 4-5min.

Whenever I've had a cold dip in the sea, I've come out of it feeling fresh physically but not wired or jittery, felt like I was wearing an armor over my body (immunity prob) like the wind had no effect on me, and then felt a sense of calm when I sat on the sand.

Anybody here do these regularly ? Any results ?

 

[Tammy]

Yes, I tried this for a period of time and all it did was stress out my body. If someone feels good for a short period of time after doing this , it's probably because of the adrenaline.

 

[Jo86]

Yes, I tried this for a period of time and all it did was stress out my body. If someone feels good for a short period of time after doing this , it's probably because of the adrenaline.

Yeah I can see that happening. Anything new is brilliant when it's new, right ?

There are loads of positive articles out there on the topic though. For instance, how it might treat depression:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17993252/
"The following evidence appears to support the hypothesis: Exposure to cold is known to activate the sympathetic nervous system and increase the blood level of beta-endorphin and noradrenaline and to increase synaptic release of noradrenaline in the brain as well. Additionally, due to the high density of cold receptors in the skin, a cold shower is expected to send an overwhelming amount of electrical impulses from peripheral nerve endings to the brain, which could result in an anti-depressive effect. "

Perhaps if a CFS sufferer feels overwhelmed by it, could they try to limit the cold showers to 3 or 4 weekly instead of daily, so there's time for an adrenaline build, then recovery from it. Perhaps it could be done in shorter spurts too, doesn't have to be 5min showers, so as to just give the nervous system that spike and then quit just there. Because you're right, it WILL try the body. It feels like having a full workout crammed into a shower cubicle and 4min !

 

[Judee]

I experience Reynauds (indoors and out) and some people have written articles on their websites actually saying that improved with cold shower therapy but I really would be nervous to try it.

I'm usually always cold anyways. Right now I'm wearing 5 layers, one of them is a hoodie with the hood pulled up.

For sleeping I wear 3-4 of those layers with an electric blanket, a comforter and 3 other fleece blankets all piled on top of me. I can still end up waking up cold, even a couple hours later.

I had to get my car battery recharged a couple days ago. This was just what one of my fingers looked like by the time I came back in the house. (Sorry about the blurry picture.)

So honestly, the thought of diving into cold water too...nah-uh. Nope.

 

[Andryr]

loads of positive articles out there on the topic though. For instance, how it might treat depression

Is it from the authors of "treat CFS with exercises"?
To be serious, its effect on healthy people has nothing to do with its effect on sick ones. What drives me mad is the inability of some researchers understand that adding more stress for those already sick may be life threatening.
Btw, congrats if it is helping you.

 

[Jo86]

I'm usually always cold anyways. Right now I'm wearing 5 layers, one of them is a hoodie with the hood pulled up.

haha that's sweet, and I get you. But believe it or not cold water will make you warm inside, and hot water will make you cooler inside your body. The body adapts to the conditions. I go incrementally. I don't just jump in straight into a freezing cold blizzard of a shower ! I really think it's a matter of whether you can take it breathing wise. Even if you're breathing intensely, as long as you don't feel faint, you're fine. You can raise it up from there, and it feels like an incremental change. You'll feel a soothing effect afterwards, a calming effect. I mean, it's just something that's there that you could try, but as everything, it'll take a few days to get right. I'm not advocating for it.

 

[Jo86]

Is it from the authors of "treat CFS with exercises"?

No. It was general science. But then you can just try it yourself and see. Everybody's got a shower cubicle.

But there is this article I've found as well:

Possible use of repeated cold stress for reducing fatigue in chronic fatigue syndrome: a hypothesis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2164952/

Go straight to the "Presentation of the hypothesis" with the pointers 1) and 2) etc.

 

[Andryr]

No offence, that was sarcasm pointed at researchers.
I had read a post about a trial in UK where they experimented with cold baths to treat CFS but eventually ran out of money. So I decided to give it a try. I tried both cold showers and cold baths. I did it for about 2 or 3 months with water temperature decreasing gradually. It improved my ability to fall asleep but did nothing for the sleep quality. So I just stopped it because it was so damn cold.

 

[sb4]

Yes, I tried this for a period of time and all it did was stress out my body. If someone feels good for a short period of time after doing this , it's probably because of the adrenaline.

This has been my experience too. I did cold showers and cold baths (cold water + ice bottles for 45mins) for a year. Whilst it helped my to continue pushing through working I am fairly sure it was due to the vasoconstriction / adrenaline. What it also did was give me horrendous dry mouth such that I would avoid saying words with S in them and be always thinking how to answer in the shortest possible sentence. I imagine this was because the cold was massively jacking up my sympathetic nervous system which already feels elevated.

 

[Hufsamor]

I’m member of a Facebook group with me/ cfs people using (mostly garmin)watches to pace themselves.
Garmin are measuring heart beats pr min together with heart rate variability and visualise it with a graph that shows the stress in your body the whole day.

one of the things people are working on, are tips and tricks to keep the stress as low as possible, in particular when you are trying to rest, but your body are stressed anyway. Because of the watch, you get an instant feedback from your body.

Cold water is one of the suggestions that seems to help a lot of people - but not everyone. For some, it makes the stress higher, but for most people it works wonders.
A cold shower might be too hard on you, but some are laying a cold cloth over forehead and eyes, or showering the legs only. For some people it helps at daytime, but stresses the body if they do it too late at night .

The theory behind seems to be that the cold water makes the body shift from the sympathetic system (fight or flight) to parasympathetic system (rest)

I wrote some posts about it not long ago, I’ll see if I can find it again

 

[Hufsamor]

I wasn’t able to post a link

But I have a screenshot for you.
Orange means stress. Blue are rest.
The higher the orange, the bigger the stress.

This woman is not able to shower in cold water,
but this day she decided to have cold water in her face- 5-6 splashes- every time she went to the bathroom
The first picture is from the day before, the second picture is when she tries cold-water -in -the -face for the first time

as you can see, the night was rather stressful.
But then, during the day, you see how the stress goes down each time she uses cold water.

 

[Husband of]

I wasn’t able to post a link

But I have a screenshot for you.
Orange means stress. Blue are rest.
The higher the orange, the bigger the stress.

This woman is not able to shower in cold water,
but this day she decided to have cold water in her face- 5-6 splashes- every time she went to the bathroom
The first picture is from the day before, the second picture is when she tries cold-water -in -the -face for the first time
View attachment 50756
as you can see, the night was rather stressful.
But then, during the day, you see how the stress goes down for each time she uses cold water.

That's very cool. Thanks for sharing. Are these graphs from the Harmon watch/ associated ap?

 

[Hufsamor]

That's very cool. Thanks for sharing. Are these graphs from the Harmon watch/ associated ap?

Garmin watch/app, yes.
(But not all garmin watches have it)

 

[Rufous McKinney]

the second picture is when she tries cold-water -in -the -face for the first time

I think trying the face method might be better tolerated in our case. I keep meaning to try the plunge your face in cold water for thirty seconds method.

And nobody mentions the feet but I wonder if just soaking feet in cold water for a couple of minutes might have comparable results.

 

[Nord Wolf]

I've been working with cold exposure recently again. I've done this on and off over the years many times. Prior to having severe ME/CFS, it always did wonders for my energy, mood, circulation, mental clarity, and stamina. However, after falling so deeply into ME/CFS all of that went by the wayside some years back. However, I have started again.

I have an inline thermometer in my shower. It shows the real time temp of the water coming out of the shower head. I take 63 degree F (17 C) showers for 3 minutes after a hot shower. 63 degrees may not seem too cold, but it is pure ice on the skin. I've also been laying nude in the snow. We have 3.5 feet (106 cm) of snow on the ground. I started with sitting for 2 minutes. Once that felt good I moved to laying down for 1 minute and have worked up to 10 minute laying sessions while remaining comfortable. I do this first thing in the morning before eating and the air temp averages between 15 and 20 degrees F (-9 to -7 C). Usually the top 12 inches (30 cm) of snow is about the same temp as the air. But since water is a far better conductor than air, direct skin exposure to snow feels far colder than to the air.

Anyway, I've noticed slightly more energy over the last week and a half. Time will tell what I notice by continuing. I am really paying attention so I don't overdo it, which is always a fine line with dysautonomia. I've had two days in the last two weeks where I didn't do the cold exposure because I was too low energy.
This is only a small part of my new regime also. I'm tracking everything in detail. After some months, depending upon the results, I'll create a post sharing it all. Until then, it is one big test.

 

[Andryr]

Some question for those who benefit from cold showers or cold exposure:
1) have you got your body temperature affected by your disease?
2) do cold showers have any effect on your body temperature?

 

[Nord Wolf]

Some question for those who benefit from cold showers or cold exposure:
1) have you got your body temperature affected by your disease?
2) do cold showers have any effect on your body temperature?
@Andryr -

1- No my body temp does not seem to be affected by my conditions for the most part. I am slightly cooler than before developing the conditions, but not severely.

2- The aim of the cold exposure is to shock/chill the skin but not the body's core temp. The way I work it my core temp is not touched by the cold shower or snow laying, just my skin layers. If it affected my core temp I doubt I would be able to handle it, and I'm sure it would be non-beneficial and aggravate my health conditions. So I pay close attention to time exposure so that only my skin layers at cooled.

 

[Jo86]

I've also been laying nude in the snow.

OK, did we really need to know that though ?

But jokes aside: how do you not catch a cold if naked in the snow for full minutes ? I know you can only catch a cold by catching a virus - and usually compromising your defenses by being in cold or wet conditions etc... will make that more probable. But it seems counter-intuitive to think: naked in the snow for a stretch, and no catching a cold. Have you ever while doing this ?

 

[Hufsamor]

Some question for those who benefit from cold showers or cold exposure:
1) have you got your body temperature affected by your disease?
2) do cold showers have any effect on your body temperature?

Not rally what you asked , but some of those who gets very chilly, or feel they can’t recover to their usual temperature after the cold exposes, finish off with warm water.
So you can do your usual shower, then shower cold, and finish off with a quick, quick warm water exposure.
If you want to shower only your feet, you do the same thing. (Or buckets with warm and cold water, keeping your feet longer in the cold water and a quick dip in the warm water at the end. But that would of course be more work)

 

[Andryr]

Not rally what you asked , but some of those who gets very chilly, or feel they can’t recover to their usual temperature after the cold exposes, finish off with warm water.

Sorry I should have been more clear. I read that many CFS sufferers have body temperature abnormalities. I do - my body temperature is lower than it used to be when I was healthy.
Since cold showering should (theoretically) activate HPA axis I was actually wondering if anybody have experienced something of that sort (long-term body temperature changes?).