Cold baths/ice baths for ME to break pain/inflammation cycle?

[Sherlock]

Can't see the video, alas, you have to be a member - oh well!

Yes, it would be great to hear from him about what happened with that work. I almost literally froze my *** off.

That's a free signup, Sasha. I like the way he talks, and he's not presumptious at all as I'd wrongly remembered.


Ladies and germs, this was a fun party, so thanks for inviting me

In that spirit and for your entertainment, I present to you Iceman Wim Hof:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=iceman hof
See him run barefoot and shirtless in the snow, see him sit in a tank of ice water (there are even competitions for that).

Also see him take IV LPS as an experiment. He is a showman, that's true; but then again this is done in a real medical faciltiy, so I think it's real:

For entertainment only, I'm not suggesting it

(Ladies and germs... that's a line from vaudeville comedians, I explain that so no one feels insulted.)

 

[Sasha]

That's a free signup, Sasha.

Thanks!

Ladies and germs, this was a fun party, so thanks for inviting me

Thanks for visiting, Sherlock!

In that spirit and for your entertainment, I present to you Iceman Wim Hof:

Wow! No, I won't be trying that...

 

[Sherlock]

It turns out that Dr. Kakkar is a surgeon, he must have been doing orthopaedic surgery so that would explain his current involvement with prophylaxis against venous thrombosis. (All that sawing and hammering makes for a disposition to clotting.)

But speaking of which, with all the inflammation here at PR, I don't see many people reporting thrombotic events or needing blood thinners.Or maybe I just hadn't noticed.

 

[Sparrow]

Interesting. When I had my initial post-viral crash that started everything, I craved ice water constantly. Now when I'm really burnt, I find an ice pack on my back/neck really helpful for taking the edge off. I've wondered if it was due to immune system factors or inflammation. Haven't tried a bath yet, though...

 

[Sea]

I remember someone that the ice baths did work for. He remained well as long as he took an ice bath everyday. When I saw the TV interview he'd been doing that for several years. I can't remember who it was and the interview wasn't actually about his illness, it was just mentioned as an aside

 

[Adster]

Sea, maybe you are think of Barry Sheene? That was a long time ago, so there may have been others who have tried it. I found standing in the cold ocean (~15-17deg) helped my chronic lower back pain, but also drained my energy if I overdid it.

 

[ukxmrv]

I did cold baths and cold sea and pool bathing off and on for years. Still do when I can. What I thought I was helping was the POTS type symptoms at the time. One doctor I saw who treated ME patients said that one of his richer patients had a pool installed to do cold bathing at home. It was for the immune system help.

This is strictly a seasonal (non-winter) thing for me. During the winter I can have cold/flus, sinus infections, chest infections and the cold baths make this worse rather than better. This doesn't seem to be the case in Russia where I saw people bathing in sea water when it was snowing. Also Scandinavia where I know people go into lakes if they are not frozen over.

What changed for me was a serious road traffic accident. After the accident I couldn't do cold baths as the cold set off the pain and increased the stiffness and loss of movement/mobility.

This is getting a little better now so I started the cold bathing again. I have an urge to be in cold water (always have). Can't cope with the chlorine in pools though.

 

[LisaGoddard]

I've been desperate for things to help my lymph node pain, and am giving cold baths a try.
The problem is that it seems to help the pain in my cervical and groin nodes, but increase my sore throat.
Do you think a cold compress on the cervical and groin area might work? Anyone tried it?

My immune system is shot to pieces. I get increased pain and sickness if I boost my proinflammatory or antiinflammatory systems. So basically both systems are hyped up. So can't use any drugs or herbals. Cold baths may be my only option.

 

[Sasha]

This might be the video I remembered, it's a CME:
Best Practices in Preventing Stroke in Patients With Atrial Fibrillation: Solutions in Everyday Practice CME
Robert A. Harrington, MD; Professor The Lord Ajay K. Kakkar, MD, PhD, FRCS
http://theheart.medscape.org/viewarticle/774372

If I get an email on him, I'll write and ask.

Just been doing a bit of googling and Ajay is the son - it was his dad, Emeritus Prof Vijay Kakkar, who did the cold bath stuff:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/123/5/f25.full.pdf

I've been trying and failing to find a reference to any published study.

 

[Lillybelle]

Cold water, ice baths have been recommended by cfs specialist to try. Mentioning the "adrenalin" would be good for the brain. Since cold water increases cortisol.
"Finally, exposure to cold increases metabolic rate and transiently activates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis as evidenced by a temporary increase in the plasma levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone, beta-endorphin and a modest increase in cortisol."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2164952/

My question is:
Do you think if you heat core body temp first via sauna or moderate exercise in heated environment - that this would affect cold water submersion positively negatively for pwc's?
Thanks

 

[Sasha]

Cold water, ice baths have been recommended by cfs specialist to try. Mentioning the "adrenalin" would be good for the brain. Since cold water increases cortisol.
"Finally, exposure to cold increases metabolic rate and transiently activates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis as evidenced by a temporary increase in the plasma levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone, beta-endorphin and a modest increase in cortisol."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2164952/

My question is:
Do you think if you heat core body temp first via sauna or moderate exercise in heated environment - that this would affect cold water submersion positively negatively for pwc's?
Thanks

Hi lilybelle - that's interesting.

The point, though, of Prof Kakkar's cold baths is to drop your core temp so what you're suggesting would work against that, I think.

 

[LisaGoddard]

Hi All, Been doing cold baths for over a month now. It has really really helped with the inflammation. The general flu feeling has gone done, and my lymph node pain is much decreased. I feel generally better. If I miss out a day of cold bathing, however, these symptoms return so obviously it is only keeping the inflammation at bay.

 

[Sasha]

Hi All, Been doing cold baths for over a month now. It has really really helped with the inflammation. The general flu feeling has gone done, and my lymph node pain is much decreased. I feel generally better. If I miss out a day of cold bathing, however, these symptoms return so obviously it is only keeping the inflammation at bay.

Congratulations! That's no mean feat to keep doing the baths (been there!) and it's good it's relieving your symptoms. Maybe keeping the inflammation down might have some long-term benefits, who knows?

 

[Lou]

Cold water, ice baths have been recommended by cfs specialist to try. Mentioning the "adrenalin" would be good for the brain. Since cold water increases cortisol.
"Finally, exposure to cold increases metabolic rate and transiently activates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis as evidenced by a temporary increase in the plasma levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone, beta-endorphin and a modest increase in cortisol."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2164952/

My question is:
Do you think if you heat core body temp first via sauna or moderate exercise in heated environment - that this would affect cold water submersion positively negatively for pwc's?
Thanks

I'm no doctor, but heating the body and then taking an ice bath is probably a good way to induce a heart attack. I'd be careful with that. Good luck.

 

[5150]

I saw a statistic long ago (sorry no link. just my memory) that people who live in warm weather climates - in the USA - live about 5 years longer, average, than those in cold weather. Somehow this seems relevant here, I hope.

 

[andyguitar]

Hi All, Been doing cold baths for over a month now. It has really really helped with the inflammation. The general flu feeling has gone done, and my lymph node pain is much decreased. I feel generally better. If I miss out a day of cold bathing, however, these symptoms return so obviously it is only keeping the inflammation at bay.

Are you still getting any benefit from them? If you still do it.

 

[andyguitar]

Sea, maybe you are think of Barry Sheene? That was a long time ago, so there may have been others who have tried it

Yes it was Barry Sheen the champion motorcyclist. Got ME after having Glandular Fever. Followed Prof Kakkar's treatment regime and got better. Might have just been coincidence. Here's a newspaper article I found.Sorry the text is hard to read!