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Coconut MCT oil implicated in proinflammatory activation.

boolybooly

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Northants UK
2013 recent but not brand new paper. IMHO worth being aware of this. I have cause to believe it is something real due to changes to my own health after trying to boost coconut oil intake in my diet.

Given the TH2 theory of ME CFIDS I thought it might interest people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3563838/?report=classic

Dietary medium-chain triglycerides promote oral allergic sensitization and orally induced anaphylaxis to peanut protein in mice

CONCLUSION
Dietary MCT promote allergic sensitization and anaphylaxis by affecting antigen absorption and availability and by stimulating Th2 responses.
 

tiredowl

Senior Member
Messages
170
Location
Norway
Yeah that is definitely worrying that it causes allergy sensitzation. What about other coconut products like just flour? Are those safe?
 

boolybooly

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Northants UK
I dont know and cant say for sure, I think the paper suggests it is linked to the medium chain triglycerides, so whatever has those in I would guess.

This matches my own experience as I tried to boost pure coconut oil intake a few years ago by baking coconut digestives with it and so had regular repeating doses of coconut MCT. Around the same time I started getting unexpectedly severe oedema reactions to summer headcolds of an unknown origin.

I have a few recurrent viruses as part of my ME CFIDS and did not connect the two. Thought it was just another weird development and bad patch.

This problem caused strong nasal polyp swelling and also inner ear swelling causing total loss of hearing in one ear for weeks at a time and these reactions were strongly exacerbated by honey and lime drink, as I reported here.
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/inner-ear-inflammation-made-worse-by-honey.52424/

I have had allergies all my life but these reactions were a step beyond my normal problems and closer to anaphylaxis. It seems very likely to me there is a connection so I am staying away from coconut to see if these severe oedemas go away and I thought it was worth passing on for discussion and possibly a warning.
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
I have never had any allergies to anything I'm aware of. But I cannot stand coconut oil, though I do like fresh coconut "meat". To me coconut oil tastes like shower gel. I prefer butter. And also like rapeseed oil very much -more than olive oil, Can't stand the taste of that either. Now I need to check if the medium chain triglycerides are in butter and rapeseed oil.....
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,378
Location
Austria
Coconut MCT oil implicated in proinflammatory activation.

Not that I felt or measured any in my blood tests while taking coconut MCT. But do have seasonal rhinitis already long before adding it in to my diet. Probably because I'm not a mice, which traditionally had a radically different diet to humans.

For example, they absolutely need no exogenous vitamin C, since they produce it endogenously.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK231918/

And if all the good effects of MCTs in mice could be replicated in humans..

https://www.google.com/search?q=mice+fed+mct&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b
 
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pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,378
Location
Austria

Shoshana

Northern USA
Messages
6,035
Location
Northern USA
I think this is one of those many confusing issues, that are difficult to know for sure, at this point in time/ research, and perhaps is different for different people, depending on so many factors, including, how much, for how long, and for what purpose, is one taking coconut oil? And what are one's individual experiences with it?

For myself, coconut oil and peanut oil, saved me, when I was losing WAY TOO much weight, and was not able to eat much, or to chose from a wide variety. I personally had no discernible negative effects, and obviously am not allergic to them. And for me, they were preferable to other saturated fats, from red meat or dairy.
Now that I recovered from that frightening year, I am deciding whether to eliminate or just reduce them.

I don't know if these studies take into account the rest of a person's individual diet.
I had very little other saturated fats. SO I do think I needed it. Fats are needed for digestion, and for me, I was dangerously thin and weak.

Just sharing my own experience. I don't know what others should do, or what I should do, ongoing, with the conflicting info out there, now.
 
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HowToEscape?

Senior Member
Messages
626
Heh.

I apply this general rule:
If a special food or supplement is blasted across the intertubes, on health sites offering the hidden truth they won't tell you and is chatted up on FaceTwitGram, then it's probably bad for you.

That said, I will use coconut oil in minor amounts for cooking, as it handles heat and makes stuff taste good. For a while I did fall for the idea of dumping a tablespoon of it into coffee, that is until my blood tests came back. Fell for the hype I did, and now much more skeptical.
 

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
I'm skeptical of eschewing coconut oil based on one study. Many compounds in coconut oil are antiviral and antibacterial, as well as boosting metabolism in general. In my opinion, saturated fats are far better for metabolism and inflammation than polyunsaturated fats. I have never felt ill effects from coconut oil.
 

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/coconut-oil.shtml

I realize this may be seen as a slightly biased article, but the nice thing about ray is he cites lots of stuff so you can look at the primary sources yourself.

I don't have the energy to pull up sources myself but there's a lot of recent research on how polyunsaturated fats contribute to everything from alcoholic liver injury, to diabetes...

If you want other secondary sources, Paul Jaminet(s)?, Chris Masterjohn, and Stephan Guyenet all discuss this
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,378
Location
Austria
https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/don-t-believe-the-mice

When you read that a lab animal with a human disease has been cured with a new drug candidate, do not get your hopes up. The stats for converting these successes into human patients are appalling. Results in animals are often the opposite of those seen in humans. For example: corticosteroids were shown to treat head injuries in animals, but then increase deaths in new-born babies in trials.

This is a big deal. A staggering 95% of drugs tested in patients fail to reach the market, despite all the promising animal studies that precede their use in humans.

“There are lots of reasons why, but in essence we are not 70 kilogram rats and we are not inbred strains,” says Thomas Hartung, a toxicologist at Johns Hopkins University in the US.

Two industry studies showed that many key findings that triggered drug development could not be repeated.

Mice are the most popular lab animals, but their brains and biology are quite different from our own. Surprisingly, rats and mice predict each other for complex measures with only 60%. Different animals, different effects.

Newspapers headlines heralding cures for Alzheimer’s to autism, on the back of rodent studies, can be taken with a pinch of salt. Neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer’s were one of the first areas to turn against the animal models, says Hartung.

“It was shown that the animal tests were misleading with respect to what is a cure and what is not,” he says.

After hundreds of human trials for promising treatments for Alzheimer’s, almost none helped patients.

This is a colossal waste of money. Industry has noticed.

“The pharma industry is now using about one-sixth the number of animals that they used in the past for drug studies,” says Hartung. “They go very late into these models.”

In a look at animal experiments, Hartung and colleagues found that pharma continues to reduce animal testing in Europe, despite rising R&D spend. From a stable 12 million used in Europe, the industry’s share dropped from 31% in 2005 to 23% in 2008, and then to 19% in 2011.

Disease researcher John Ioannidis at Stanford University in California has written that the safety and effectiveness of interventions in humans can only “be speculated from animal studies”.

Speaking at the EuroScience Open Forum (ESOF) in Toulouse, France, earlier this year, he said that “industry doesn’t want to waste money taking academic papers that promise that they have found a drug target and spend billions of dollars to develop it, and then come up with nothing”.

He pointed to just six of 53 landmark studies in cancer being repeatable and lamented that too many basic scientific discoveries are wrong.

One problem is that scientists often take a simple approach to mimicking a disease in mice, by just finding a gene that when knocked out stamps the mice with hallmarks of the human disease.

This is how the first Alzheimer’s disease mouse was created, but the animal did not reflect the true Alzheimer’s condition of most patients.

“Single gene mouse models are different from the illness that we experience in humans,” says neuroscientist Malcolm MacLeod at the University of Edinburgh, UK, who describes mouse models for stroke, high blood pressure, Parkinson’s and more as failing to reflect the complexity of the human disease.

“This has been a failed strategy,” he warns, in terms of finding therapies.

Hartung too has warned about the hype about these genetically modified animals.

Sometimes scientists discover therapies to cure mice, but not people. The record for inflammatory disease is especially striking. More than 150 trials have tested agents to block inflammation in critically ill patients. The candidates worked in animals, but all failed in patients.

With this in mind, Ronald Davis, at Stanford Genome Technology Centre in California, decided to compare how all genes in mice and all genes in people react when they encounter trauma, burns or bacterial toxins. There was almost no connection whatsoever. Mice genes did one thing; human genes did another.