Clinical Trial: IV Albumin for Severe POTS

kushami

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As I got diagnosed with something else last year (OCHOS) and CFS is now ruled out for me, I won’t be posting here any more as per forum guidelines.

I just wanted to pop back so as not to leave any conversations hanging.

Even though I didn’t have CFS, I do have horrible chronic fatigue, brain fog, and low blood flow to the brain, so I hope nobody minds that I visited for a while.

Best wishes to everyone and take care. Thank you for having me!
 

Judee

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As I got diagnosed with something else last year (OCHOS)
Could you explain what that is as I haven't read the thread? (I also tried to look it up on the Internet but it was showing other things instead of a health condition.)

Also I don't think you need to leave the forum necessarily especially if your disease is similar to ME/CFS.

You might even be able to help someone else here who also has OCHOS but is undiagnosed. ??

@Mary was a moderator so maybe she can say if you have to because of guidelines.
 

Mary

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As I got diagnosed with something else last year (OCHOS) and CFS is now ruled out for me, I won’t be posting here any more as per forum guidelines.

Hi @kushami - from what I understand, the forum guidelines have been changed and members are no longer required to have ME/CFS, though they were at one time. So I don't think there's any need for you to leave. But I want to confirm this with another moderator and will reply back here when I find out for sure.

Thanks @Judee for catching this -
 

Mary

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@kushami - Phoenix Rising's policy has changed and persons are no longer required to have ME/CFS to be admitted as members though they should have an allied or related or similar condition and it certainly sounds like you qualify so there's no need for you to stop posting or leave the forum.
 

Mary

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@sb4 - from what I understand, initially it wasn’t required to have ME/CFS to join PR but at some point it was made a requirement. But members who had joined prior to that time were allowed to stay. Nobody was asked retroactively to leave, it was just that new members were screened for whether or not they had ME/CFS.

And now the pendulum has swung back :nerd:
 

sb4

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I see. I was recently denied entry to a telegram group for not having ME.

I don't really see the benefit to such a rule but I'm sure there is one.
 

Mary

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@sb4 - I didn’t make the rules or guidelines about this, but as I understand it, the reasoning for limiting membership to persons with ME/CFS was to keep the focus of the forum on ME/CFS. There’s almost nowhere in the world where persons with this illness can find help. There are forums for people with MS and thyroid issues, etc. etc. etc. so the fear was that the forum might get sidetracked with other illnesses which are recognized as being real and which do have a lot of support from the medical community.
 

kushami

Senior Member
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371
@Hoosierfans , I do hope it helps by the time you get to 4, but I guess if it doesn’t work that may be useful information.

So maybe the IVIg was helping, just in a short-lived way?

All this can be so frustrating when there’s often no testing to complement treatments.

I have all my fingers and toes crossed that the new method of blood volume measurement (CO2 rebreathing) is going to find a home in many hospitals and autonomic labs and at the Bateman Horne Center, Stichting Cardio Zorg, and other places that treat folks with CFS and OI.

Sure, knowing your blood volume won’t lead to a cure, but it would save a lot of time to know whether or not you need volume expanding therapies, and then to know whether the therapies are working.

If I win lotto, I will donate one somewhere!
Oops, that should be CO rebreathing.
 

kushami

Senior Member
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Could you explain what that is as I haven't read the thread? (I also tried to look it up on the Internet but it was showing other things instead of a health condition.)

Also I don't think you need to leave the forum necessarily especially if your disease is similar to ME/CFS.

You might even be able to help someone else here who also has OCHOS but is undiagnosed. ??

@Mary was a moderator so maybe she can say if you have to because of guidelines.

@Judee , I’m so sorry I didn’t reply to this at the time.

OCHOS is orthostatic cerebral hypoperfusion syndrome. Basically it means having an abnormal drop in cerebral blood flow when you are upright, but no unusual changes in heart rate or blood pressure related to being upright.

Measuring cerebral blood flow needs to be done with specialised equipment, so people with OCHOS might slip through the cracks because their problem can’t be “seen” in the same way that POTS or orthostatic hypotension can be.

Dr Peter Novak, the doctor who described this syndrome, has diagnosed at least three people with ME/CFS with OCHOS as well (he mentions it in his paper). Maybe more by now, as the paper came out in 2016.

The treatment for OCHOS follows two possible paths, depending on whether the patient tends towards low blood pressure or high blood pressure. (Note that these are overall tendencies, and not related to blood pressure going up or down during a standing test.)

If the patient tends towards low blood pressure, they are treated with typical orthostatic intolerance measures, such as compression garments, increased salt and fluids, fludrocortisone, maybe midodrine.

If the patient tends towards high blood pressure, they are treated with vasodilators to lower the blood pressure and counter what Dr Novak believes is abnormal vasoconstriction in the head that prevents enough blood getting to the brain. He usually starts with a calcium channel blocker – just the normal kind you would take for ordinary high blood pressure.

I’m in the high blood pressure category, although my blood pressure didn’t go up until about 15 years into being unwell. I am getting some relief from taking a low dose of two vasodilators plus I’m trying a couple of supplements off my own bat.

Initially I took a standard dose of a calcium channel blocker and felt great for a week, but then side effects showed up. Frustratingly every class of blood pressure medication either causes me insomnia or reduces my urine output when I get near a therapeutic dose.

Sorry for the long and late reply, but hopefully it might help someone.
 
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kushami

Senior Member
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371
Oh, how to get diagnosed:

See an autonomic specialist and get diagnosed based on symptoms. They should know that not everyone with OI has blood pressure or heart rate signs.

And/or

Get a NASA lean test or tilt table test in conjunction with a Doppler ultrasound. There are two options: transcranial Doppler (looking through the skull at the middle cerebral artery), or carotid or vertebral artery measurements (looking at the arteries in the neck/back). The second option uses standard equipment for measuring venous function so may be easier to get.
 
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kushami

Senior Member
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371
@kushami - Phoenix Rising's policy has changed and persons are no longer required to have ME/CFS to be admitted as members though they should have an allied or related or similar condition and it certainly sounds like you qualify so there's no need for you to stop posting or leave the forum.
@Mary, I just realised I didn’t reply to your post all this time! Many apologies. I did see it and also had a message from a moderator. I appreciate being able to stay a member, because, even though I technically fit under dysautonomia, my medication tends to go in the opposite direction to most folks with OI and in the same direction as some folks here. (I need vasodilation.)

Also, I do understand both arguments – membership limited more strictly or not – and will try not to post anything that might be confusing due to my different status,

Thank you!
 

kushami

Senior Member
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371
I mentioned earlier in this thread that scientists had discovered that albumin had immune-modulating effects while using it as a placebo against IVIg. Here is a link to the 2011 paper:

“Immunomodulatory effects of therapeutic preparations of human albumin”
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1423-0410.2011.01475.x

(Behind paywall, but is on Sci-Hub.)

(I’m just posting this link to the paper for completeness – no need to read the paper unless you happen to be interested in the topic.)

Since this paper, other immune-modulating effects of albumin have been found. Here is a link to a 2020 paper that talks about albumin’s various effects:

“Albumin as a drug: its biological effects beyond immune expansion”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10692529/
 

kushami

Senior Member
Messages
371
I recently happened across the information that albumin acts as a vasodilator in the body, with an effect on NO in the endothelium.

So it’s possible that I felt better after an albumin infusion not because of anti-inflammatory/autoimmune effects, but because it caused my cerebral blood vessels to dilate temporarily. (Or it could have been both.)

I am still stumbling over information like this by chance, despite having a supposed autonomic specialist for two years. He never showed any curiosity or even spent five minutes researching clues like this. I have had to work out the meaning for myself with help from people on forums, the odd researcher, and my patented technique of “reading a bunch of stuff vaguely related to my symptoms”.

I hope he is the exception amongst autonomic specialists. The others seem to be fairly switched on, although I have to judge from a distance here in country Australia.
 
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