Chronic Neuropathic PAIN & topical capsaicin

[MEKoan]

HELP!!! :Sign Help: HELP!!!​

Did I say Help?

Here is my story.

My skin is not broken, blistered or inflamed. I went looking for Capsaicin first in the health food store (because I was there); the only formulations they had included a lot of other ingredients, but not the concentration of Capsaicin. So I went to the drug store. There were two concentrations. One came as roll on; definitely the one for me — no chance of getting it in my eyes! Odor Free and No Touch Applicator. 0.15%. Bingo. I bought it.

Wednesday night I decided to try it on the top of my right foot (a spot about 3" diameter) and the end of my index? toe (whatever it's called). It burned. It burned a bit worse than the pain I was trying to eliminate, but if this will work in the long term I'm all for it. That's all I used of it.

Today, I was still noticing a little bit of stinging feeling where I applied the Capsaicin, not bad, but different than usual. Still okay.

Just a short while ago I got in the shower. This is a day and a half later. The very warm (not really hot) water on the top of my foot started burning quite a bit. It got so uncomfortable that I ended up trying to keep that foot out of the water, and then doing a flamingo while leaning against the shower wall. Not okay.

Now, 15 minutes later, the top of my foot is quite red (and my big toe is a little whitish). It feels a little sunburned-like, but not bad.

I'm glad I only tried it on one foot.

Help! Did I already say Help?

I just don't get it. :innocent1:

gracenote

Ok, Gracenote, poor you!

I don't know what you used and I don't know how different various brands are. I use Zostrix HP (high potency) which is a white cream.

They should include with the capsaicin an insert that explains certain things to you like the fact that water, especially hot water, turns the heat on again just as it does if you try to cool off your mouth with water after Mexican food! In fact, I use this to my advantage by reactivating the capsaicin on my face with hot water so that one application = 2 treatments.

I once heard from a woman on a message board who rubbed capsaicin all over her legs, panicked at the sensation of heat and jumped into a shower to scrub it off! Then she called 911. True story. She did not read the package insert.

And, just as people who heat hot food all the time become inured to the heat, so those who shmeer it on their skin also become inured. I don't feel much heat when I put it on now but in the beginning, with a lower strength, I have stuck my face in the freezer. And, once, having forgotten the whole water thing - I've made every capsaicin mistake known to man - leapt from a hot shower, opened my window which was just above the sidewalk on a busy street and stood there, wrapped in a towel with my bright red face thrust out into a snowy January afternoon.

Now, I slather it on and cover it with saran wrap to turn up the heat. What this illustrates, at least on my face with Zostrix, is that the sensation of heat is not actually burning me. In fact, my skin seems to look nicer for using it and any redness is temporary. I have never had any lasting redness or soreness or anything like that.

It seems strange to me that the capsaicin you used on Wednesday would be stinging on Friday. That just doesn't seem right to me. I'm wondering what they put it in and if whatever that is is irritating or... something. The reawakening of the heat is totally normal, though.

Well, my dear, what are you going to do?! I've only ever used Zostrix so can't comment on anything else.

Fretfully your,
Koan

 

[MEKoan]

Gracenote,

Something else to consider. I started out with Zostrix .025 and now, years later, use .075. You used .15 !!! That's 6x what I started with and twice what I use now!

That's very strong!

 

[Diva55]

Hi Gracenote & Koan
Yes I'm with Koan on this - my tube is "Zacin 0.025%" so Grace you are using a very high potency!

I'm suprised they sell it in such a high potency. It's so powerful at the low dose I have and it can burn especially if you are very sensitive.

Oh I should say that I get mine from my GP in the UK under prescription - so the brand maybe unknown in other countries.

When things have settled I hope you think about trying the very low formulation.

Gracenote,

I started out with Zostrix .025 and now, years later, use .075. You used .15 !!! That's 6x what I started with and twice what I use now!

That's very strong!

 

[MEKoan]

Yes! It's very strong!!!

Where is that Gracenote???

 

[gracenote]

I'm here. I'm hearing you Koan and Diva.

I'd read about the hot water thing (I did read the fine print), but a day and a half later??? Six times as strong as you started with Koan?

​

I'll try again to find Capsaicin that's not so strong. I'll give it another shot. It may not be until next week.

Thanks to both of you for your help. I'll report back on my next Capsacin trial.

​

 

[MEKoan]

Six times as strong as you started with Koan?

6 x stronger than I started with, 6 x stronger than Diva uses, 2x stronger than what I'm feeling heating up (!) my face right now even after I've used it for more than 5 years.

Zostrix used to have a stick (don't know if they still do) but not in Canada so I use the cream. I cover my fingers in plastic wrap, or a corner of a plastic bag - bread bag, etc., before applying which works just fine. I don't advise applying with bare fingers and trying to wash it off, though, because it's just about impossible to get off.

6 X

Where's the screamie face!

love,
K

PS I didn't read the fine print at first either and, well, this is not the place to share all the sensitive places I got that stuff and all the things I did wrong!

 

[gracenote]

What do you think of this is one, Koan?​

 

[MEKoan]

That was my face when I stuck it out the window!

It's spicy hot now, too! I love this feeling; it is the feeling of substance P being depleted :victory:

We'll sort you out!

 

[willow]

Koan,

Aah, I missed the freezing bit. Still the only freezing I'll be doing is with ice cubes.

But no root canals here. I've just got a cracked tooth with amalgam over it. At least the dentist thought it cracked but seems to have repaired at least there's no longer pain. Unsure how it will hold up once she gets the powertools on it and determinedly drills out every speck of alagam coloured enamel:worried:

Good Luck with yours!

BTW I think nitrous oxide inhibits methylation/MHTFR enzyme. Somewhere I have more info if you want it.

As a child i was given it twice for dental work. The first time I was unable to move my legs afterwards. The 2nd they reduced the dose, I woke up during the procedure but still had to be carried out.

 

[MEKoan]

Hey Willow,

Gosh, they gave you a lot of laughing gas if it knocked you out! It's supposed to just make you find sharp objects digging about in your head amusing. No wonder you couldn't move your legs!

Yeah, I thought there was some reason we should avoid. Thanks for that. Pity, though.

Glad you are doing ok with the tooth situation! I still have some amalgams. I figure the ones which have not been changed to composite simply because they needed to be replaced for other reasons are better left where they are rather than flying around my mouth in bits, and vapourized, as they did/were when removed.

Put down the Capsaicin, Gracenote!

Just in case.

 

[willow]

Gosh, they gave you a lot of laughing gas if it knocked you out!

Here dentists routinely used it to put children to sleep for extractions etc. It was pretty normal then. Many of us had awfie vivid nighmares

I tried searching to see if they still do it, and found a dentist's website that claims the child is conscious whilst breathing the nitrous oxide/oxygen mix but some have vivid dreams

You're sensible with those amalgams, it's why I've so far left mine alone too. Can't help dreaming that one day soon I'll be well enough to have the biggy over the cracked tooth removed. I had a tiny one done as a child and over 30 -35 years it's almost vapourised away....

 

[gracenote]

I still have some amalgams. I figure the ones which have not been changed to composite simply because they needed to be replaced for other reasons are better left where they are rather than flying around my mouth in bits, and vapourized, as they did/were when removed.

Put down the Capsaicin, Gracenote!

Just in case.

The Capsaicin is down for now, but I intend to try Zostrix .025 when I get a chance.

Koan and willow. I have replaced my amalgams only as needed. I've found a dentist that uses a dental dam and suction and has me breathe oxygen and also take charcoal so that I won't have problems with the amalgams "flying around my mouth in bits, and vaporized."

I think you could find a dentist like that, although, in my experience, they are more expensive, which in all our experiences, is a problem.

 

[willow]

I've found a dentist that uses a dental dam and suction and has me breathe oxygen and also take charcoal so that I won't have problems with the amalgams "flying around my mouth in bits, and vaporized."

I've one of these lined up Gracenote. Even though she thought the tooth under my largest amalgam was cracked she still thought me too ill to safely work on. Her honesty and caution impressed me. She also made huge efforts to make the visit as easy for me as poss, turned off the computers, lights, gave me just 2 x-rays, emailed me her conclusions so i was clear about everything.

Anyway despite various safety procedures for amalgam removal she warns everyone that these are not failsafe, that we need to have adequate health to eliminate the toxins that aren't mopped up with charcoal etc. So she suggested a practitioner she thought might help get me to that stage.... I think I'm moving that way.

 

[MrHappyGoLucky12]

gracenote,

I haven't tried capsaicin, but I do use the "End Fatigue Pain Formula" at http://fibromyalgiafatiguesupplements.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=7414762 and the Joint Gel at http://fibromyalgiafatiguesupplements.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=7418097 . May be worth a try!

 

[gracenote]

Thanks MrHappyGoLucky12. Can I just call you Mr. Happy?

I'll check out the sites.