Gondwanaland
Senior Member
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- 5,100
DH does neither of those options
Choline causes brainfog
- Thread starter edro
- Start date
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- 2
As a side note... I've experienced the same reaction with coQ10 as with Choline. Intense brain fog & lethargy. I wonder if there is a connection?
joejack102
Senior Member
- Messages
- 133
I apologize for bumping an old post, but these same reactions to CDP Choline and Choline Bitrate and other similar supplements are exactly what I have posted about. I have not found an antidote to this reaction.
Belgiangirl
Senior Member
- Messages
- 108
I abuse this by asking does someone here maybe know more about this problem I am describing?
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ine-impairment-drug-induced-reversible.77198/
--> extreme cognitive decline after anticholinergics -> which is basically what can be expected cause it is written up all over scientific literature that it is a consequence upon taking them. I was highly gifted / hyperintelligent but my GP never did mention this side effect... I have a very low body weight (underweight heavily) and he didn't bother given me too large quantities anyway. I feel like he wanted to make sure that all my brain is completely collapsing from any function...
Now I am feeling like I have dementia, I am in the beginning of my 30ies. Since I have been ill all my life - and CFS got mentioned from 16 - I didn't have much of a life but since I am highly intelligent this was for me every reason to be still around here... and it was enough for me. Now my brain is dead and I am not the same person anymore, not even close. I am afraid how this will continue...
I orderede fosphatidylserine and huperzine A, upon taking it i got extremely headache (unfortunately i stopped with the anticholinerga already monts and months before cause another GP noticed it and thought it was completely crazy...). No positive change...
I do take lecithin and ginseng root.
Anyone having any ideas? Everything is welcome, I am as desperate as can be and getting depressed - something i won't be able to escape, esp more worrisome is that this is typical in dementia onset, especially in gifted people...
thank you very much
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ine-impairment-drug-induced-reversible.77198/
--> extreme cognitive decline after anticholinergics -> which is basically what can be expected cause it is written up all over scientific literature that it is a consequence upon taking them. I was highly gifted / hyperintelligent but my GP never did mention this side effect... I have a very low body weight (underweight heavily) and he didn't bother given me too large quantities anyway. I feel like he wanted to make sure that all my brain is completely collapsing from any function...
Now I am feeling like I have dementia, I am in the beginning of my 30ies. Since I have been ill all my life - and CFS got mentioned from 16 - I didn't have much of a life but since I am highly intelligent this was for me every reason to be still around here... and it was enough for me. Now my brain is dead and I am not the same person anymore, not even close. I am afraid how this will continue...
I orderede fosphatidylserine and huperzine A, upon taking it i got extremely headache (unfortunately i stopped with the anticholinerga already monts and months before cause another GP noticed it and thought it was completely crazy...). No positive change...
I do take lecithin and ginseng root.
Anyone having any ideas? Everything is welcome, I am as desperate as can be and getting depressed - something i won't be able to escape, esp more worrisome is that this is typical in dementia onset, especially in gifted people...
thank you very much
- Messages
- 2
My case is very similar but the causes are different (CFS and mercury intoxication). I've experienced a extreme cognitive decline but variable, there are days that my brain fog is extreme and others that I can easily do cognitive activities and I feel sharp and relatively fast. I know my cholinergic system has damages (investigating and for deduction) and supplement cholinergic drugs help me a lot while the main problem isn't it, and I think you clould have the same: it is brain inflammation, especialy in subcortical areas. This is common in CFS and explain perfectly the variable cognitive decline. I recommend to you to try antiinflammatory drugs like liposomal curcumin. Don't worry about dosage, increase it if it's necessary to you.
On another hand, you could try brain training, memory training (loci method, speed reading, visual thinking and so on). It doesn't solve the head but could help you to move on with your problems.
Belgiangirl
Senior Member
- Messages
- 108
Another update:
- Fosfatidylserine 500mg & huperzine A -> huge headache
- Huperzine A alone -> okay as far as I could notice
- I thought I took the combination of the above again but I am not sure.
- Lecithin 1200mg: take this daily for months -> no problem
Now I orderd the much more expensive patented and said to be good citicoline or GDP choline -> 250mg blended with fish oil, while my cognition was getting better
-> Headache again ... and I feel like a zombie, no information gets to me... I forget everything and remembering what I read is a challenge!!
I even forget what I want to put here :-/
WebMD mentions that doses up to 2000mgs /day are safe!!
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1090/citicoline
What can I do and what are you guys all telling about an interaction to DNA and choline?
What now?
PS I am underweight
- Fosfatidylserine 500mg & huperzine A -> huge headache
- Huperzine A alone -> okay as far as I could notice
- I thought I took the combination of the above again but I am not sure.
- Lecithin 1200mg: take this daily for months -> no problem
Now I orderd the much more expensive patented and said to be good citicoline or GDP choline -> 250mg blended with fish oil, while my cognition was getting better
-> Headache again ... and I feel like a zombie, no information gets to me... I forget everything and remembering what I read is a challenge!!
I even forget what I want to put here :-/
WebMD mentions that doses up to 2000mgs /day are safe!!
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1090/citicoline
What can I do and what are you guys all telling about an interaction to DNA and choline?
What now?
PS I am underweight
triffid113
Day of the Square Peg
- Messages
- 859
- Location
- Michigan
I have BHMT variations and am COMT +/+ and I positively LOVE choline. When I take it, I feel like a curtain has been lifted in my brain and it glows as if it was rubbed with Vicks Vap-o-rub! I surmise this is from increased circulation due to lowered neural inflammation (choline lowers inflammation). Maybe it helps
supply more TMG to my wonky BHMT gene since it's a 4 methyl molecule and stripping off 1 methyl
leaves TMG. Anyway, I don't generally take it because I take too may pills already and it was only a "nice-to-have". But I am reevaluating that because there is an estrogen receptor on the enzyme that makes choline in the body and so, as you age, you make less and need to consume more. My family on my Dad's side has always eaten a certain way - we eat eggs each and every day, despite any fads. I speculate this is due to the choline content in eggs. Choline is also high in salmon. We don't eat alot of beef due to gout, although I never knew this was why until I moved in with a guy who won't eat poultry and started getting gout.
I am researching choline now and the studies say it LOWERS brain fog and helps memory. I started taking it in college when I read that you need choline for acetylcholine which is involved in memory. (I never found that it improved my memory, which was/is pretty good anyway. (However, I used to have a photgenic memory, and was hoping choline would restore it)). I consider it (and natto, for different reasons) an anti-headache pill. Also, choline lowers anxiety, which is of interest to me since I used DHEA for that and could, perhaps, lower my dose.
I have no doubt it influences different people differently. However COMT+/+ does not prove anyone has high dopamine. I had my levels tested 3 times and always tested low dopamine! (For which I say, thank God I have the gene to help me hang on to what I've got!).Dopamine is involved in motor control and I have always been clumsy. Despite extremely bad allergies, I cannot take allergy meds because they are cholinergic inhibitors (block the dopamine path) and my dopamine is low already. On hayfever pills, I cannot remember anything for 30 seconds and I drop things - my muscles just randomly stop working-!
I believe I read that if you do NOT have the BHMT mutations, then more of choline is used by the BHMT pathway to regenerate methionine from homocysteine. It sounds like a good thing to me , because homocysteine is a neurotoxin. But that would make more methyls and, theoretically, those with COMT +/+ can't tolerate more methyls (although it doesn't affect me as far as I know).
Choline makes TMAO. Well, so I recently tested high in TMAO, which my doctors says is a heart disease indicator. (I just read in fact that it raises risk of colon cancer, among other things!) . I told my doctor I would never stop choline ingestion because of that Vicks-Vap-O-Rub feelingbywhich my brain is telling me it LOVES it. I only randomly take TMG (a cholinergic), and even more randomly take choline. However I eat eggs each and every day! I also eat a lot of salmon. I told my doc I would not exclude healthy food that my body likes from my diet. However, online I now read 3 simple things to lower TMAO: fiber (timing is important - take it with/after big meal(s)), cruciferous vegetables (a very good way to stave off cancer anyway), and balsalmic vinegar (not other vinegars). I have never tried balsalmic vinegar but people say it tastes great.
supply more TMG to my wonky BHMT gene since it's a 4 methyl molecule and stripping off 1 methyl
leaves TMG. Anyway, I don't generally take it because I take too may pills already and it was only a "nice-to-have". But I am reevaluating that because there is an estrogen receptor on the enzyme that makes choline in the body and so, as you age, you make less and need to consume more. My family on my Dad's side has always eaten a certain way - we eat eggs each and every day, despite any fads. I speculate this is due to the choline content in eggs. Choline is also high in salmon. We don't eat alot of beef due to gout, although I never knew this was why until I moved in with a guy who won't eat poultry and started getting gout.
I am researching choline now and the studies say it LOWERS brain fog and helps memory. I started taking it in college when I read that you need choline for acetylcholine which is involved in memory. (I never found that it improved my memory, which was/is pretty good anyway. (However, I used to have a photgenic memory, and was hoping choline would restore it)). I consider it (and natto, for different reasons) an anti-headache pill. Also, choline lowers anxiety, which is of interest to me since I used DHEA for that and could, perhaps, lower my dose.
I have no doubt it influences different people differently. However COMT+/+ does not prove anyone has high dopamine. I had my levels tested 3 times and always tested low dopamine! (For which I say, thank God I have the gene to help me hang on to what I've got!).Dopamine is involved in motor control and I have always been clumsy. Despite extremely bad allergies, I cannot take allergy meds because they are cholinergic inhibitors (block the dopamine path) and my dopamine is low already. On hayfever pills, I cannot remember anything for 30 seconds and I drop things - my muscles just randomly stop working-!
I believe I read that if you do NOT have the BHMT mutations, then more of choline is used by the BHMT pathway to regenerate methionine from homocysteine. It sounds like a good thing to me , because homocysteine is a neurotoxin. But that would make more methyls and, theoretically, those with COMT +/+ can't tolerate more methyls (although it doesn't affect me as far as I know).
Choline makes TMAO. Well, so I recently tested high in TMAO, which my doctors says is a heart disease indicator. (I just read in fact that it raises risk of colon cancer, among other things!) . I told my doctor I would never stop choline ingestion because of that Vicks-Vap-O-Rub feelingbywhich my brain is telling me it LOVES it. I only randomly take TMG (a cholinergic), and even more randomly take choline. However I eat eggs each and every day! I also eat a lot of salmon. I told my doc I would not exclude healthy food that my body likes from my diet. However, online I now read 3 simple things to lower TMAO: fiber (timing is important - take it with/after big meal(s)), cruciferous vegetables (a very good way to stave off cancer anyway), and balsalmic vinegar (not other vinegars). I have never tried balsalmic vinegar but people say it tastes great.
triffid113
Day of the Square Peg
- Messages
- 859
- Location
- Michigan
See above. I have COMT +/+ and do NOT have sufficient dopamine. COMT +/+ is only one way to lessen dopamine degredation.