CFS severity driven by leptin

[tatt]

H pylori infection significantly increased gastric leptin expression in one study. I have recently become to wonder if a bad response to helicobacter pylori infection may be important for some people with ME. I think the study reported here measured leptin in blood though.

 

[MeSci]

Interesting thought. I just did a search of the ME Research UK pdf of research from 1956-2011, and there were no hits for 'helicobacter', but that may just be because no one has thought to research it.

A general internet search found this paper reporting that Lactobacillus- and Bifidobacterium-containing yogurt suppressed Helicobacter pylori infection:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/80/3/737.full.pdf

However, the yogurt used would perhaps be unsuitable for ME sufferers if Sheedy et al are right with the d-lactic acidosis theory of ME, in terms of both the bacteria and the sugar in it. (I don't know whether fermenting milk makes it tolerable to people with lactose intolerance.)

 

[Forebearance]

I think Dr. Shoemaker thinks leptin is a link in the chain.

 

[roxie60]

Here is some SNPedia info related to Leptin. There are a number of SNPs if you do a search on Leptin although there is not a Leptin wiki at SNPedia.

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs1501299

After reading this thread and others just curious if a survey done of those confirmed to have h-pylori at some point in their experience? I was confirmed h-pylori vi GI test over a year ago. I took Mastic Gum daily for 3 months to treat. I should get another test done to be sure that got rid of it.

 

[RustyJ]

Younger's presentation at the Stanford conference has focused my attention on this issue. I have trouble putting on weight. I have noticed that when I reach a certain low fat state, through exercise, I go into a fatigue situation which can last for months. So there appears to be a relationship between low fat and fatigue in my case. This situation has occurred time and time again. As soon as I start looking lean, I go into severe fatigue state. It appears my body is running out of fat stores.

Because of brain fog, I have trouble understanding how the leptin mechanism works here. Is it a sensitivity problem? My body says put on weight and so leptin is ramped up, thus leading to fatigue?

Should I block supplement leptin during these periods only, or work on sensitivity issues?

As a side note. I was taking ketotifen which suppressess TFN - a and found I was able to put on muscle, however fatigue did not appear to be affected. There is a TFN link to leptin.

 

[rosie26]

I have weight problems too, it became very obvious to me that whenever I get to 60kg my ME deteriorates. I get severe lack of appetite with nausea, ME inflammation everywhere, with severe exhaustion and weakness and I lose the weight I put on. I can't seem to get over 60kg and keep it. My ME just doesn't like me carrying any weight over 60kg. So this leptin could be what is causing me problems in this area.


Before ME my normal weight was always up around 65-70kg.

 

[heapsreal]

i struggle to keep my weight down. Is there anyone with ME who doesnt have problems with keeping weight off or putting weight on??

 

[*GG*]

i struggle to keep my weight down. Is there anyone with ME who doesnt have problems with keeping weight off or putting weight on??

Ah, wouldn't your question apply to the population at large?

GG

 

[Art Vandelay]

i struggle to keep my weight down. Is there anyone with ME who doesnt have problems with keeping weight off or putting weight on??

Have you been tested for insulin resistance? Many people with CFS seem to have it (I suspect it might be due to the inflammation). Mine is pretty severe so I'm on Metformin.

 

[Hip]

The enterovirus that triggered my ME/CFS (which I detail here) was also caught by many friends and family, and a high percentage of these infectees, including myself, soon developed lots of belly fat, which is also called abdominal fat or central obesity, as a result of this viral infection. I was the only person who developed ME/CFS from the virus, but many other people infected with it developed central obesity within a few years. Prior to catching this virus, I had always had a very lean, athletic body type, and I was someone who never ever put on any weight, no matter what I ate. But now I must watch my weight. The virus clearly changed the physiological dynamics of my body on a permanent basis.

My observations of this virus-induced obesity is certainly in line with the theory that the global obesity epidemic, which first began in the 1980s, is caused by one or more infectious pathogens in circulation (ie, that the obesity epidemic is actually an infectious disease epidemic).

Note however that central obesity, which is what the virus I caught seems to cause, is a specific form of obesity, where fat accumulates only in the belly and central area of the body. Central obesity contrasts to general obesity — the latter is where you accumulate fat all over your body.

Interestingly, resistance to either insulin or leptin produces central obesity. Note that resistance to a hormone is a condition where the body only responds weakly to the presence of a hormone in the blood. Resistance to either insulin or leptin actually results is higher blood levels of these hormones, because the body tries to compensate for the resistance simply by making more of the hormone.

If you have insulin resistance (and thus higher levels of insulin), this can result in an accumulation of fat around the organs of the abdomen. This fat around the organs is also called visceral fat or intra-abdominal fat.

If you have leptin resistance (and thus higher levels of leptin), this can result in an accumulation of subcutaneous fat in the abdominal area. Ref: here.

It is I believe the visceral fat, rather than the subcutaneous fat, that is more linked to the development of further health problems.


More info:
Novel Methods to Reduce Stubborn Belly Fat - Life Extension

 

[aimossy]

I found this a while ago when looking up leptin after Lipkin said about finding it upregulated in the telephone transcript or whatever it was....interesting reading I thought...it's a link I don't know how to open it up for people.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014579304013894

 

[Nielk]

@Hip - I have the same experience. Is there anything that can be done about it?

 

[RustyJ]

I think I got it wrong. I have changed my initial post to reflect that for thin people maybe increasing leptin via supplementation might be necessary.

My ex wife suffered from bulemia, prior to my sudden onset, although I was already suffering mildly from me/cfs and I often wondered whether I gave her something. I just checked bulemia and leptin associations. Bulemia has abnormally low leptin levels, directly linked to food cravings and subsequent disgorging.

Is there a correlation with low weight me/cfs and bulemia and leptin? Does anyone else have a bulemia association with partners or relatives?

Rather than try to increase sensitivity to leptin which seems quite problematic dietary wise, I will investigate supplementation first

 

[heapsreal]

Ah, wouldn't your question aisply to the population at large?

GG

I guess but the population at large when they decide to fix their weight Issues it's generally easier. I think for many of us cfsers have a harder time due to mitochondria dysfunction, hormone dysfunction and insulin resistance that all seem to feed off each other.

A few friends I have, non cfsers having their midlife crisis seem to be able to change things quite easy with just a sensible diet and exercise. Just isn't as easy with cfsers.

 

[RustyJ]

I found this a while ago when looking up leptin after Lipkin said about finding it upregulated in the telephone transcript or whatever it was....interesting reading I thought...it's a link I don't know how to open it up for people.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014579304013894

Upregulation? Increase in receptors? Does this mean lowered production? I wish researchers would speak english.( I wish I could understand english)

 

[rosie26]

I found this a while ago when looking up leptin after Lipkin said about finding it upregulated in the telephone transcript or whatever it was....interesting reading I thought...it's a link I don't know how to open it up for people.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014579304013894

Thanks Amy, lots of interesting reading on leptin there !!

 

[bel canto]

It's important to remember that average leptin levels were within normal ranges for the patients. No one even mentioned weight levels related to leptin that I remember.

The findings that were significant from Montoya's study is that the levels changed in sync with the fatigue levels of 7 of the 10 patients that they studied for 25 days. Leptin levels increased in close correlation with fatigue levels, and decreased the same way.

Dr. Younger talked about leptin being on average 3 times higher in women than men, it can suppress appetite, and that it is extremely inflammatory. It's not something that can be easily manipulated, as it is connected to many, many parts of the body. It affects the microglia of the brain, and neurons related to pain, fatigue, and "sickness behavior" (physiological, not psychological).

It didn't seem to me that they know why this happens. But they're searching. Maybe others can add their interpretations of some of these talks.

 

[*GG*]

I guess but the population at large when they decide to fix their weight Issues it's generally easier. I think for many of us cfsers have a harder time due to mitochondria dysfunction, hormone dysfunction and insulin resistance that all seem to feed off each other.

A few friends I have, non cfsers having their midlife crisis seem to be able to change things quite easy with just a sensible diet and exercise. Just isn't as easy with cfsers.

I lost 40lbs rather easily by following the Ideal Protein diet, unfortunately I have put a few pounds back on recently, but had kept it off for at least 1 year!

GG

 

[heapsreal]

I lost 40lbs rather easily by following the Ideal Protein diet, unfortunately I have put a few pounds back on recently, but had kept it off for at least 1 year!

GG

Lol I have been low carb for years. Its the best way for me to eat but have to be very strict with very little carbs to lose weight. It does control appetite well. If I didn't have cfs and ate like I do now I would be a lean mean fighting machine, maybe? Still can't get down to my pre cfs weight.

 

[heapsreal]

It's important to remember that average leptin levels were within normal ranges for the patients. No one even mentioned weight levels related to leptin that I remember.

The findings that were significant from Montoya's study is that the levels changed in sync with the fatigue levels of 7 of the 10 patients that they studied for 25 days. Leptin levels increased in close correlation with fatigue levels, and decreased the same way.

Dr. Younger talked about leptin being on average 3 times higher in women than men, it can suppress appetite, and that it is extremely inflammatory. It's not something that can be easily manipulated, as it is connected to many, many parts of the body. It affects the microglia of the brain, and neurons related to pain, fatigue, and "sickness behavior" (physiological, not psychological).

It didn't seem to me that they know why this happens. But they're searching. Maybe others can add their interpretations of some of these talks.

Might not be about the levels of leptin but more to do with our leptin sensitivity similar to insulin and insulin sensitivity??