CFS is a metabolic condition!

Aerose91

Senior Member
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1,401
@Elph68

At risk of overstepping my bounds, may I ask why defemation? I've been called crazy by tons of doctors but I haven't thought of defaming them or anything- I just accept that they have no idea and move on. Not trying to assume here tho
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,235
Location
Cornwall, UK
Well MeSci, regardless of whether my interpretation of infection is correct or in line with the medical process robots, different species of 'normal flora' bacteria, acting in the same way, causing chronic disease is an undetectable infection in today's medical system ....

And by the way, my experience to date with the medical profession that you hold in so high regard ... Has not been great!! I am being sued by an infectious disease specialist, a urologist, 2 gp's and the pathologists for defamation ... I have publicly accused them of misdiagnosis, and for racketeering ....

I told them to bring it on!!! It is going to be very public!!!

This disease is caused by (in some/most cases) different strains of normal flora acting in the same way (crossing the mucosal barrier) and interacting directly with the immune system, causing chronic disease .... The undetectable infection ......

I can't think where you got the idea that I hold the medical profession in high regard. This is very far from being the case, and my catalogue of bad experiences including arrogance, ignorance, rudeness and misdiagnosis has led me, like many others here, to give up on them, do my own research and treat myself. Perhaps you are confusing the medical profession (i.e. medical practitioners) with medical websites and scientists.

Re the overgrowth of normal bacteria, this has been widely discussed on Phoenix Rising, for example in this forum.
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
@Elph68

At risk of overstepping my bounds, may I ask why defemation? I've been called crazy by tons of doctors but I haven't thought of defaming them or anything- I just accept that they have no idea and move on. Not trying to assume here tho
Hi, because of my website www.superbugskill.com ... Don't worry apparently if I see a psychologist everything will be fine ....
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
I can't think where you got the idea that I hold the medical profession in high regard. This is very far from being the case, and my catalogue of bad experiences including arrogance, ignorance, rudeness and misdiagnosis has led me, like many others here, to give up on them, do my own research and treat myself. Perhaps you are confusing the medical profession (i.e. medical practitioners) with medical websites and scientists.

Re the overgrowth of normal bacteria, this has been widely discussed on Phoenix Rising, for example in this forum.
My mistake MeSci ... Just seems like sometimes you stick up for them ... My apologies.

Seems I go around in circles with this .... When I say an 'overgrowth' exactly what I mean is the normal flora changes from non pathogenic to pathogenic strains ... Particularly hydrogen sulphide producing strains.

Hydrogen sulphide is generally produced in the presence of simple sugars .... (As a side note, I believe that one of the causes of non-bacterial prostatitis is caused by this) .... There is a whole lot of science with regards to this. Hydrogen peroxide, and protease also play a role as they disrupt the mucosa ....

Not quite sure how to articulate what I am trying to put forward ....
 

Leopardtail

Senior Member
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1,151
Location
England
My mistake MeSci ... Just seems like sometimes you stick up for them ... My apologies.

Seems I go around in circles with this .... When I say an 'overgrowth' exactly what I mean is the normal flora changes from non pathogenic to pathogenic strains ... Particularly hydrogen sulphide producing strains.

Hydrogen sulphide is generally produced in the presence of simple sugars .... (As a side note, I believe that one of the causes of non-bacterial prostatitis is caused by this) .... There is a whole lot of science with regards to this. Hydrogen peroxide, and protease also play a role as they disrupt the mucosa ....

Not quite sure how to articulate what I am trying to put forward ....
Your starting to make more sense, I kinda suspected a wording issue was going on.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,235
Location
Cornwall, UK
I see from Wikipedia that defamation can include 'a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation.'

It will depend on the law in various countries/states whether it constitutes a crime.

BTW I note that @Elph68 says on his site "Enterococcus is also known as the 'flesh eating bug'!"

I have always understood Staphylococcus aureus to be the one known as the flesh eating bug, or necrotising fasciitis to give it its medical name.

This is indeed a bacterium found everywhere, but which can become pathogenic under certain conditions, like many microorganisms (including candida species).
 

Ecoclimber

Senior Member
Messages
1,011
Well MeSci, regardless of whether my interpretation of infection is correct or in line with the medical process robots, different species of 'normal flora' bacteria, acting in the same way, causing chronic disease is an undetectable infection in today's medical system ....

And by the way, my experience to date with the medical profession that you hold in so high regard ... Has not been great!! I am being sued by an infectious disease specialist, a urologist, 2 gp's and the pathologists for defamation ... I have publicly accused them of misdiagnosis, and for racketeering ....

I told them to bring it on!!! It is going to be very public!!!

This disease is caused by (in some/most cases) different strains of normal flora acting in the same way (crossing the mucosal barrier) and interacting directly with the immune system, causing chronic disease .... The undetectable infection ......

You might check out these posts on how various stealth viruses are able to evade the immune system through adaptation
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ted-by-bodys-immune-system.30744/#post-470493

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...nic-fatigue-syndrome.27634/page-3#post-438264

In fact read through the entire thread how some of these viruses will send out enzymes to defeat the immune system

Deficient EBV-Specific B- and T-Cell Response in Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

EBV can subvert the human immune response, as we show that BPLF1 can remove ubiquitin tags from proteins in the TLR signaling cascade. This inhibits TLR signaling and decreases the expression of immune response genes.
 
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Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
Do you name any doctors on that site? I couldn't see any names from a quick look. So who are you supposedly defaming? Or maybe I missed the names.
Hi MeSci, I did have the doctors names on the site, I just recently took them off.

But I had actually faxed my concerns and my accusations to their place of employment, so apparently some directors and other members of staff read the faxes
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
You might check out these posts on how various stealth viruses are able to evade the immune system through adaptation
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ted-by-bodys-immune-system.30744/#post-470493

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...nic-fatigue-syndrome.27634/page-3#post-438264

In fact read through the entire thread how some of these viruses will send out enzymes to defeat the immune system

Deficient EBV-Specific B- and T-Cell Response in Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

EBV can subvert the human immune response, as we show that BPLF1 can remove ubiquitin tags from proteins in the TLR signaling cascade. This inhibits TLR signaling and decreases the expression of immune response genes.
Hi Eco .... It wouldn't surprise me if viruses are a further complication and may increase the severity of the disease ... Personally, I am clear of HSV and severe abx treatment improved me by about 70%.

Viruses do not fit my situation ... I acquired my symptoms from my GF who has worked all her life in dentistry ....

I have said before on other threads, I reckon at least half the people on this forum have pathogenic normal flora which is causing the disease ....
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
I see from Wikipedia that defamation can include 'a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation.'

It will depend on the law in various countries/states whether it constitutes a crime.

BTW I note that @Elph68 says on his site "Enterococcus is also known as the 'flesh eating bug'!"

I have always understood Staphylococcus aureus to be the one known as the flesh eating bug, or necrotising fasciitis to give it its medical name.

This is indeed a bacterium found everywhere, but which can become pathogenic under certain conditions, like many microorganisms (including candida species).
Hi MeSci, enterococcus/streptococcus and others are also known to cause necrotizing fasciitis .... As I keep trying to get across ... Different strains of the same bacteria act in different ways ..... So what is seen as normal flora may not actually be acting normally ....

I have been meaning to update the website now that I have researched a whole lot more due to the feedback I have received here ;)

Different species of bacteria acting in the same way, causing chronic disease .... Is an undetectable infection ...
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
Hi MeSci, enterococcus/streptococcus and others are also known to cause necrotizing fasciitis .... As I keep trying to get across ... Different strains of the same bacteria act in different ways ..... So what is seen as normal flora may not actually be acting normally ....

I have been meaning to update the website now that I have researched a whole lot more due to the feedback I have received here ;)

Different species of bacteria acting in the same way, causing chronic disease .... Is an undetectable infection ...
Just further ... I would really like to know if Hydrogen Sulphide is implicated in necrotising fasciitis also ... Don't need that distraction right now though .....
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,235
Location
Cornwall, UK
As I keep trying to get across ... Different strains of the same bacteria act in different ways ..... So what is seen as normal flora may not actually be acting normally ....

I don't think anyone has disputed the possibility. But it is just one possible cause amongst many.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
I haven't read all 7 pages, but can I just ask, if the problem with CFS is metabolic, how can sufferers still get fat?

Actually, most metabolic issues increase the risk of gaining weight. The counter to this is poor gut tolerance of food or absorption of nutrients (which can trigger dysbiosis) which means patients lose weight instead. I think if a weight survey were done, and it was not considered too personal for people to post, and we could compare it to a normal population, it would look skewed to both overweight and underweight, with a lowered normal weight in the graph.

Mitochondrial impairment and low metabolic weight mean two things. First, we need more micronutrients. Second, we need less calories. That combination drives us to eat too much or deprive ourselves of nutrition, or both. I suspect that is why many do better on more basic diets, like the Paleo diet or high protein diets etc. Its also why some do better on vegetarian diets, though I did much worse as a vegetarian in the long run.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,235
Location
Cornwall, UK
Actually, most metabolic issues increase the risk of gaining weight. The counter to this is poor gut tolerance of food or absorption of nutrients (which can trigger dysbiosis) which means patients lose weight instead. I think if a weight survey were done, and it was not considered too personal for people to post, and we could compare it to a normal population, it would look skewed to both overweight and underweight, with a lowered normal weight in the graph.

Hey - does that mean that those of us who have normalised our weight are cured?

:D:smug:
 
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