CD26, CFS and food allergies

[Dreamboy]

I have read with interest Klimas et al's work on CD26 and CFS. The thought is that this marker is very low in CFS.
I have done some research, CD26 is also known as Dipeptidyl peptidase-4 (DPP4). I found it very interesting to learn that DPP4 has found growing use in Digestive Enzyme supplements, specifically to help digest casein and gluten.
I thought this was very interesting as many people with CFS have wheat or milk allergies / intolerances.
Could there be a connection here, or is this mere coincidence?
And given Klimas et al think CD26 is very low in CFS, does this supplement form help?

 

[IntuneJune]

CD26 and gluten

That is interesting.

The more I read, the more confused I get it seems. I am a diagnosed celiac (with blunting of the villae-hopefully improved now). This is different from an allergy or intolerance to wheat. Also, I have other food "allergies." When I had testing for celiac, they tested to see what my chances were for developing celiac and if I were a carrier. I will try to dig out those results.

Also, I have a PRIMARY immune defiiciency disease. The slogan of the national organization IDF is "It's in the genes."

Now in both cases, I was not diagnosed until later in life, in my 60's. A little unusual. Well, come to think of it, maybe not.

A thought running around in the back of my mind is are we ticking time bombs from the moment we are born.? Is the gluten "gene" set to go off at a predetermined time? Or has it met up with something else that sets it off.

Did I get sick because my immune system was never able to handle things well (primary) or did my immune system just tire out and give up?

What I am trying to say (very poorly) which comes first?

Your question is great, will be following along closely.

June

 

[oerganix]

That is interesting.

The more I read, the more confused I get it seems. I am a diagnosed celiac (with blunting of the villae-hopefully improved now). This is different from an allergy or intolerance to wheat. Also, I have other food "allergies." When I had testing for celiac, they tested to see what my chances were for developing celiac and if I were a carrier. I will try to dig out those results.

Also, I have a PRIMARY immune defiiciency disease. The slogan of the national organization IDF is "It's in the genes."

Now in both cases, I was not diagnosed until later in life, in my 60's. A little unusual. Well, come to think of it, maybe not.

A thought running around in the back of my mind is are we ticking time bombs from the moment we are born.? Is the gluten "gene" set to go off at a predetermined time? Or has it met up with something else that sets it off.

Did I get sick because my immune system was never able to handle things well (primary) or did my immune system just tire out and give up?

What I am trying to say (very poorly) which comes first?

Your question is great, will be following along closely.

June

My hunch is that our immune systems get overwhelmed first. I base that on the fact that wheat, glutenous grains and dairy have been with the human race since at least Sumerian times, maybe earlier, and it seems like we wouldn't have been able to tolerate those foods so well if they had had a negative affect on our immune systems.

On the other hand, it is frequent exposure that supposedly creates the sensitivity, or allergy. So, back to where we started. Why do some become allergic after frequent exposure and others do not, even in the same family? Ah, sweet mysteries of life...so complicated.

 

[leaves]

Is it possible that the xmrv infection disregulates enzymes, either directly, or indirectly (via hormones)?

 

[Frank]

This has also a great link to Autism. So go for the Autism opioid peptide free diet and supplement with a DPPIV active supplement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipeptidyl_peptidase-4

 

[dannybex]

Probiotic VSL#3 breaks down gliaden

I don't know if this would help people with celiac, or just gluten intolerance/wheat sensitivities, but this (expensive!) probiotic has been shown in studies to break down gliaden in wheat dough...

I wonder if this suggests that a bacterial imbalance, or insufficent strains of specific 'good' bacteria may result in gluten sensitivities?

Just throwin' in out there.

Here's the study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16311022

 

[leaves]

That's so interesting! In fact I am taking those (for oxalate problems) For me they are not so expensive as I have a prescription for them (VSL DS is reimbursed by insurance) I still have a copayment though...

 

[HopingSince88]

Dannybex,
Can you explain dosing? How many per day, or per meal? or how does that work?

Also, do the probiotics establish themselves in the gut over time, and can you reduce or eliminate the use of VSL3? Or not.

TIA,
Hoping...

 

[dannybex]

Dannybex,
Can you explain dosing? How many per day, or per meal? or how does that work?

Also, do the probiotics establish themselves in the gut over time, and can you reduce or eliminate the use of VSL3? Or not.

TIA,
Hoping...

Hi Hoping,

VSL3 is a very high dose probiotic, so it comes in sachets that you open and mix the powder with applesauce or something similar (you could use yogurt..?). But it's got 450 BILLION organisms in each sachet, compared to the typical probiotic capsule that has maybe 2-3 billion. This high dose helps insure that at least a decent amount makes it all the way to the large intestine where it could help repopulate the gut. (I think it even comes in a 900 billion dose as well.)

I don't know too much more than that -- I've just been on it twice -- 1 1/2 years ago -- and now -- because it's too pricey for me, but am hoping to raise more $$ to be able to afford it, along with other tests/treatments. "Leaves" is lucky to have such great insurance. It's about $98 for a box of 30 sachets...I'm taking it every other day to make it last longer.

There are of course other probiotics out there -- good ones -- the only reason I listed this was because of the study linking it to gluten intolerance.

hope this helps,

db

 

[HopingSince88]

Thanks, Dannybex,

This sounds really interesting to me. I have Igg to gliadin, but not celiac. I would love to be able to eat wheat products in small amounts and not have all the disturbance I now get. This product sounds like it could help move me in that direction.

Hoping...

 

[Mark]

My hunch is that our immune systems get overwhelmed first. I base that on the fact that wheat, glutenous grains and dairy have been with the human race since at least Sumerian times, maybe earlier, and it seems like we wouldn't have been able to tolerate those foods so well if they had had a negative affect on our immune systems.

What I have been told is rather different Oerganix, so I'm wondering which version is right. I was told that the wheat and glutenous grains we eat now are originally from the americas and therefore unsuitable to the diet of anyone whose roots are from africa and europe, and we should all be eating corn and barley instead. I know this principle holds good for people of african and carribean origin, in relation to cow's milk, which 50% of them are intolerant to. I've also heard the point expressed a few times that none of us are really evolved to tolerate cow's milk anyway, because historically we used to drink goat's milk, if any kind of milk.

Sorry to contradict you after your kind and helpful comments on another thread recently, but that's just what I've been told.

 

[zoe.a.m.]

In regards to the VSL3: can it be taken by people who have trouble with dairy? Has anyone with a dairy intolerance been on this for any amount of time who can share? I've thought about trying to do at least a month or two on it while I'm being treated for H. pylori, but I got as far as reading that it had dairy in it and put the idea on hold.

Hoping, I'm IgG sensitive to gluten as well--though not celiac--so it'd be interesting to try!

Often it's said that if dairy is fermented, it's okay for those who have trouble with dairy, but I haven't found this to hold true. Anyone else?

 

[xchocoholic]

In regards to the VSL3: can it be taken by people who have trouble with dairy? Has anyone with a dairy intolerance been on this for any amount of time who can share? I've thought about trying to do at least a month or two on it while I'm being treated for H. pylori, but I got as far as reading that it had dairy in it and put the idea on hold.

Hoping, I'm IgG sensitive to gluten as well--though not celiac--so it'd be interesting to try!

Often it's said that if dairy is fermented, it's okay for those who have trouble with dairy, but I haven't found this to hold true. Anyone else?

I'm allergic to dairy and have found that I'll get a reaction from dairy kefir and I think from probiotics with dairy. I bought some Fem dophilous the other day and got my typical black marks around my eyes but I'm retesting it to see if that was really what was causing the black marks ... I have the same reaction to raw cheddar goat cheese and it's supposed to be the easiest for us to handle ...

Cordain, of the Paleo diet, has an interesting theory on how the wheat we have today is nothing like the wheat our ancestors grew. He goes on to explain how our DNA can't handle it anyways too ... I came down with celiac disease while eating shredded wheat and multi grain bread on a regular basis. I'm betting that more people will find out just how sensitive they are to wheat as whole grains become the norm ... X

 

[anne_likes_red]

In regards to the VSL3: can it be taken by people who have trouble with dairy? Has anyone with a dairy intolerance been on this for any amount of time who can share? I've thought about trying to do at least a month or two on it while I'm being treated for H. pylori, but I got as far as reading that it had dairy in it and put the idea on hold.

Hoping, I'm IgG sensitive to gluten as well--though not celiac--so it'd be interesting to try!

Often it's said that if dairy is fermented, it's okay for those who have trouble with dairy, but I haven't found this to hold true. Anyone else?

I don't have experience with VSL3 Zoe. I do have much less of a reaction to properly fermented dairy (24 - 30 hours fermentation as per the Specific Carbohydrate Diet), than I do to store bought yogurt which is likely only fermented 8 hours or so and the proteins not well broken down. However I do 1000% better on store bought yogurt than on straight milk *yuck* which I have never tolerated well.
I'm avoiding all dairy for now as I'm doing a structured gut program.
I've been buying dairy free probiotic powder and culture cashew "cheese" for my dairy intolerant son and he does really well with that Loves it.

PS you can use a good expensive probiotic to help culture home made yogurt - I use Bio-Kult, and you get way more bang for your buck that way. Its a good way of ensuring any dairy in the probiotic is properly fermented too, not that it's a guarantee you'll tolerate even 24 hour fermented dairy.

 

[zoe.a.m.]

Thanks for the replies!

I'm guessing that the VSL3 would be a no-no with the SCD and Paleo diets...? Because a doc can prescribe it, I'm thinking it's made more like a standard pharmaceutical than probiotics that one can buy through a naturopath or online.

Cordain, of the Paleo diet, has an interesting theory on how the wheat we have today is nothing like the wheat our ancestors grew. He goes on to explain how our DNA can't handle it anyways too ... I came down with celiac disease while eating shredded wheat and multi grain bread on a regular basis. I'm betting that more people will find out just how sensitive they are to wheat as whole grains become the norm ... X

I'm going to check this out. I've been hearing about the Paleo diet for a while, and I'm familiar with the discrepancy between the grains of yesteryear vs. those we have available today, but I'd love to read a good DNA theory on it!

PS you can use a good expensive probiotic to help culture home made yogurt - I use Bio-Kult, and you get way more bang for your buck that way. Its a good way of ensuring any dairy in the probiotic is properly fermented too, not that it's a guarantee you'll tolerate even 24 hour fermented dairy.

I actually made coconut milk (wow, that was a lot of work) a couple of weeks ago to try just such a thing. I finally got the GI prostart that I ordered and was ready to try the whole thing and then have had awful, awful sleep issues that have prevented me from seeing any projects through. I still can't make up my mind if it's better to just buy a coconut kefir (one thing I won't try making at home!) or if yogurt will suffice.

The 450 billion bacteria in the VSL3 is sounding really appealing though!

 

[Athene]

Hi Zoe,
I have a bad dairy allergy as wll as leaky gut/caseomorphine problems with dairy. I am absolutely fine with VSL3. I usually take one sachet a day but sometimes 2.
I have also given it to my son whose daiy allergy makes him get severe asthma almost instantly, and he was also fine.

 

[xchocoholic]

Hi Zoe,
I have a bad dairy allergy as wll as leaky gut/caseomorphine problems with dairy. I am absolutely fine with VSL3. I usually take one sachet a day but sometimes 2.
I have also given it to my son whose daiy allergy makes him get severe asthma almost instantly, and he was also fine.

Athene,

Are you sure that you're fine with this ? If I remember correctly, you're still having some serious undefined symptoms. Symptoms aren't always easy to pick up on. I have a freind who's blood glucose drops if she eats dairy but the list of possible reactions is long. Just a thought .. Even my DD with a serious peanut allergy has a tough time figuring out why she reacts some times and not others. In fact, 4 years ago when she went away to college, one of her doctors ran an allergy panel and told her that she could now eat peanuts ... OMG !!! I was panicking when she told me this ... Later tests proved once again that she was allergic to peanuts ...

I didn't figure out where the dark marks around my eyes were coming from for awhile. The black area next to my nose, my first area to react, was missed, it wasn't until I got black marks under both eyes that I caught it ... It takes 3 days of steadily eating dairy for me to get a reaction and 7 - 10 days for those marks to go away ...
HTH ... X