Cause of herx from grapefruit seed extract spray?

[Outlaw]

Took Xlear (nasal rinse with xylitol and GSE) for 6 days, and developed big herx: intense fatigue, severe neck pain, anxiety, derealization, red eyes.

What are the probable suspects for this die off? I have narrowed it down to EBV, Lyme, candida or Marcons.

I was EBV igM positive last year, but Lyme negative (0 bands). And my mold test showed low level of ochratoxins.

The neck pain is usually Lyme... should I do another test? Or could it also be EBV & others?

I also read that sinus infections can cause neck pain


Please help!

Cheers

 

[Judee]

I know that Strawberry got some improvement with GSE but it was the drops and not the nasal spray.

I think the biome in the nose can get messed up so easily with sprays and whatnot, just my opinion.

I do know there was a study about people using the neti pots too often. They actually ended up getting more sinus infections than the people who only used them once in a while. The doctor who did the study said it's because of the nasal biome. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/WellnessNews/frequent-neti-pot-sinus-infections/story?id=9054035

And I do think there is some kind of nerve in the nose that also connects to a nerve in the neck because sometimes when I've used nasal sprays I get a sharp pain in my sinuses and my neck almost simultaneously...It's very painful.

Anyway, just a thought.

 

[Heart Face]

Just wondering how you know it’s a herx and not an MCAS/Histamine reaction? I often wonder this when people suggest they are herxing.

 

[ChrisD]

I always Herx from Xlear nasal spray. I have lyme, bartonella, mycoplasma, potentially mold issues too.

 

[mariovitali]

I think it is because the Grapefruit extract which is a potent P450 inhibitor. Basically this tells to your liver to work even slower. Not good for us (my hypothesis)

From wikipedia for GSE :

Although various health claims for using GSE are marketed in the dietary supplement industry, there is no scientific evidence from high-quality clinical research that it has any health effects, as of 2018.[8][11] Phytochemicals in grapefruit seeds, particularly furanocoumarins and flavonoids, may cause adverse effects on health resulting from grapefruit–drug interactions that influence the intended therapeutic effects of some 85 prescription drugs.[11][18] The main safety concern about GSE is inhibition of the liver enzyme, cytochrome P450, which controls liver metabolism of drugs; consequently, its inhibition by GSE unpredictably increases the blood concentrations of prescribed drugs.

 

[Outlaw]

Just wondering how you know it’s a herx and not an MCAS/Histamine reaction? I often wonder this when people suggest they are herxing.

I can recognize herx because I always get sharp pains in my neck when I herx from gut treatments too. I never have that with my histamine reactions

 

[Outlaw]

I think it is because the Grapefruit extract which is a potent P450 inhibitor. Basically this tells to your liver to work even slower. Not good for us (my hypothesis)

From wikipedia for GSE :

Hi Mario,

Yes this is something I thought about before taking this. Indeed I was super affected by caffeine in the last few days, as it was probably metabolized slower.

I decided to still go for it because I remembered I tolerated a 10 week course of Melia and Morinda last year (antimicrobials), and I read one of them is a CYP3A4 inhibitor

I have also not suffered the same severe cognitive and sexual dysfunction that I suffered when I crashed from an ox bile supplement (which I theorize was caused by bileflow suddendly stopping after the FXR recognized the influx of sufficient bile acids)

I agree the liver is a key piece of dysfunction in my PFS/CFS but in this case I think the Xlear busted some biofilms in my sinus. Lyme, EBV, Marcons.. who knows.

There's also the hint that sinus infections are known to cause neck pain

 

[Tsukareta]

What happens if you consume a tiny amount of it ( open a capsule sprinkle a tap of powder into a glass of water, stir it up as much as possible, drink a small amount of that ) ? Pure Encapsulations make a good one of the grapefruit seed. If it was Candida it would be in your stomach too.

 

[Outlaw]

What happens if you consume a tiny amount of it ( open a capsule sprinkle a tap of powder into a glass of water, stir it up as much as possible, drink a small amount of that ) ? Pure Encapsulations make a good one of the grapefruit seed. If it was Candida it would be in your stomach too.

I'll try it out. I do swallow a good portion of the spray as it drips from my nose.

The stiff neck is usually Marcons or Lyme and I was Lyme negative so I'm leaning toward Marcons.

I also have a big nasty pimple that appeared near my ear canal after 4 days of spray, so it looks like it's killing something