Can you be "too clean"?

debored13

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Just dashing out, @debored13, so no time to answer properly... but I'm absolutely not saying that things that are actually toxic (e.g. some types of mould) aren't a problem, and I have MCAS myself, so I know what it's like. It's just that some of the 'toxins' and 'unclean' foods aren't even always defined clearly, let alone known to be harmful. It's more about manipulating people into a mindset, so they begin to invent their own theories about 'toxicity'. I'll admit it's extremely clever, but I'm also convinced it can do real harm in some cases.
I would agree somewhat but I think in many cases people become really reactive to a variety of things and it has nothing to do with phobia. Some people’s mcas has improved with moving out of mold, some of it has improved with ivig, and some of it has improved with cci treatment. So in many cases not each individual trigger is at fault but one is still reactive and it’s tough to manage without fixing the ultimate problem
 

debored13

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Probably not if it’s chronic exposure but if the detox was effective and the current environment is mold free I don’t see why something that’s said to be helpful for healing the brain or stimulating neurogenisis couldn’t be helpful.
the problem is I don't think there's evidence for any of the brain training things "stimulating neurogenesis" and a lot of them are more like brainwashing techniques than anything. There are lots of things that are proven to stimulate neurogenesis which may be more worth looking into than brain retraining, which is also costly
 

debored13

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Let me explain briefly why brain retraining for toxic exposure is bullshit: toxicity is demonstrated by all of these compounds--mycotoxins, etc, in vitro in cells--cytotoxicity, without the need for a central nervous system or "beliefs" or cognitive patterns. They are toxic to cells. You can't retrain your cells to not respond to toxins. Even if your cells are uniquely hypersensitive, that is something explainable at the cellular level. naviaux's cell danger response theory proposes that mitochondria have memory of past stressors. It's not all something mediated by threat awareness or the limbic system or whatever buzzword. Yes its unfortunate people have to avoid things due to hypersensitivity, but until researchers look into the connection btwn mold and cfs its what people have got, and probably better than nothing
 

debored13

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@SueJohnPat do you have an update?
I have this exact same reaction but it's too hard to believe, but I'm experiencing it .

I don't think it's being to clean , I think it's that our bodies have broken down and everything is a problem . I too had no chemical or food sensitivities but now it's everything, everything is a problem . Maybe we do have CIRS.

I had high antibodies to multiple molds but everything else that was tested , was negative . Strangely, the dr said he didn't think it had anything to do with all my health issues . Uh, ok, I raised the issue of mold and there came the blood work results .

Yes, I think we have toxin overload . It's the environment. I loved gasoline , candles and scented lotion , I can't breathe around any of it and turn "drunk". There is some oxygen component as well that I can't figure out . Maybe we need to go in chambers , I don't know

But I think we have plenty challenging our immune systems just living in this highly toxic environment, eliminating the stuff that we can , is probably a positive
mold avoidance has been known to help with multiple chemical sensitivity, whereas one remains always sensitive to mold...
 
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@SueJohnPat do you have an update?
I have this exact same reaction but it's too hard to believe, but I'm experiencing it .

I don't think it's being to clean , I think it's that our bodies have broken down and everything is a problem . I too had no chemical or food sensitivities but now it's everything, everything is a problem . Maybe we do have CIRS.

I had high antibodies to multiple molds but everything else that was tested , was negative . Strangely, the dr said he didn't think it had anything to do with all my health issues . Uh, ok, I raised the issue of mold and there came the blood work results .

Yes, I think we have toxin overload . It's the environment. I loved gasoline , candles and scented lotion , I can't breathe around any of it and turn "drunk". There is some oxygen component as well that I can't figure out . Maybe we need to go in chambers , I don't know

But I think we have plenty challenging our immune systems just living in this highly toxic environment, eliminating the stuff that we can , is probably a positive
I am sorry you are experiencing this. I just had a terrible experience. I went to the me/ cfs conference in Bethesda Maryland. I was feeling great drove down by myself. I have been sleeping all winter in a new travel trailer next to my house. I am able to hike up to 6 miles. I slept in the hotel one night and lost my memory the next day. The organizers called my husband and he and my son came down to get me . I am fine today. Slept in the trailer last night. I don’t know if it’s a case of Transient global amnesia but I really think it had something to do with reacting to something in the Motel . This was a beautiful motel and I don’t think there is anything “ wrong “ with the place. I think I am just extremely sensitive due to not sleeping indoors . Erik Johnson / Lisa petison write a lot about this.
I am going to start a new thread about this in a few days.