Can anyone recommend a good mushroom-based immune complex?

[Mary]

I've been looking at this product by Life Extension: https://www.iherb.com/pr/life-exten...uLUmjhqfDb0bhpyYcUMwwgTfLgtPKheBoCSHIQAvD_BwE - the reviews are pretty good and the price is not bad.

I know very little about mushrooms in general, except I like eating them!

This would be for anti-viral purposes. I can't tolerate valtrex (insomnia).

 

[perchance dreamer]

I think Host Defense is a good brand of mushroom supplements. They have several immune products.

I had tried their Comprehensive Immune Support, a combination of immunity-boosting mushrooms, but it gave me insomnia. Later, I realized that any kind of product containing chaga mushrooms negatively affects my sleep.

Then I decided to try just one of the mushrooms in the Comprehensive Immune Support. I use Host Defense Cordyceps powder. Cordyceps can also boost energy, so after experimenting, I figured out the dose small enough not to give me sleep problems.

Here are some of this brand's immune products. Some are also sold on Amazon, so you can read their user reviews.

https://hostdefense.com/collections....custom.benefit_category=Immunity+&+Wellness*

 

[Mary]

Thanks so much, @perchance dreamer! Insomnia is my bete noir. If it's a possible side effect of anything, I get it. And as luck would have it, I did order the Life Extension product about an hour ago . . . and it contains chaga of course! I'll be careful with it -

I'll check out the Host Defense products - Has the cordyceps helped your immune system, as well as boost your energy?

I remember reading years ago that at one time cordyceps was hard to obtain (it's a parasite and grew on insects . . . ) and considered quite valuable and was thus only available to the emperor in China. Nowadays it's cultivated on rice or other mediums and can be obtained by anyone.

 

[Carl]

I have been using Cordyceps mushrooms for many years.
I use Cordyceps Sinensis powder and avoid Cordyceps Militaris which is frequently promoted instead because of it's very high Cordycepin levels. The Cordycepin levels are about x100 times higher than the natural Cordyceps mushroom and much higher than the cultivated Cordyceps Sinensis. I also dislike capsules because they are more expensive and less effective because of the large quantity required. I use 2x3/4 teaspoon scoops = 1.5 teaspoons at a time. With ME it is best to start small and work up as always.

With ME you do need to be careful with immune system stimulation because of the autoimmunity that your digestive system state provokes.

This site has a good information on Cordyceps mushrooms and lists the constituent differences between the different varieties. I have never used the mushrooms that they sell and I cannot give any recommendations about them.

I'm considering trying AHCC powder (Active Hexose Correlated Compound) to help treat Lyme disease and it is supposed to be made from shiitake mushroom. I already use Astragalus. I do take measures to lower my autoimmunity which is extremely high because of the extremely large holes/biofilms in my digestive system.

## Overview

**Active Hexose Correlated Compound (AHCC)** is a proprietary nutritional supplement that is primarily known for its immune-modulating properties. It is widely used in Japan and other countries as a complementary therapy, particularly for supporting immune health and as a potential adjunct in cancer care and viral infections[1][2][3].

## What Is AHCC Made From?

- **Primary Source:** AHCC is derived from the mycelia (the root-like structure) of the shiitake mushroom (*Lentinula edodes*)[1][2][3].
- **Production Process:** The mycelia are cultured in a nutrient-rich medium for nearly two months, then separated, sterilized, and freeze-dried. This unique fermentation and culturing process reduces the size of the polysaccharides, making them more easily absorbed by the body[2][4].
- **Main Components:** The supplement is composed of a mixture of:
- Polysaccharides (mainly alpha-glucans, with some beta-glucans)
- Amino acids
- Lipids
- Minerals[1][5][3]

## Key Features and Benefits

- **Immune Modulation:** AHCC is best known for its ability to enhance immune function by increasing the activity of natural killer (NK) cells, dendritic cells, and T lymphocytes. It is believed to act as an immune modulator, supporting the body's ability to respond to infections and potentially cancer[1][2][3].
- **Bioactive Polysaccharides:** The main active components are alpha-glucans, which are more readily absorbed than the beta-glucans found in most other mushroom extracts[1][6][3].
- **Potential Health Benefits:**
- May help clear persistent viral infections, such as HPV[2][6][7]
- Supports liver function and detoxification[5][3]
- Exhibits antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties[5][3]

## How Does AHCC Differ from Other Mushroom Extracts?

- **Unique Alpha-Glucans:** Unlike most mushroom extracts, which are rich in beta-glucans, AHCC is primarily composed of alpha-glucans, which are smaller and more easily absorbed by the body[1][6][3].
- **Source:** While many medicinal mushroom supplements use fruiting bodies, AHCC is specifically made from the cultured mycelia of shiitake mushrooms[1][2][4].

## Summary Table

| Feature | AHCC Details |
|------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Source | Shiitake mushroom mycelia (*Lentinula edodes*)[1][2][3] |
| Main Components | Alpha-glucans, polysaccharides, amino acids, minerals[1][5][3] |
| Production | Cultured, fermented, sterilized, freeze-dried[2][4] |
| Key Benefits | Immune support, antiviral, antioxidant, liver health[2][6][3] |
| Unique Aspect | High alpha-glucan content, enhanced absorption[1][6][3] |

## Conclusion

AHCC is a well-researched supplement derived from the mycelia of shiitake mushrooms, notable for its unique composition of easily absorbed alpha-glucans and its documented effects on immune modulation and overall wellness[1][2][3]. It is not interchangeable with other mushroom extracts due to its specific production process and bioactive profile[7].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHCC
[2] https://levitasclinic.com/ahcc-japanese-mushroom-extract/
[3] https://consensus.app/home/blog/wha...-correle-dhexose-actif-extrait-de-champignon/
[4] https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-020-00414-3
[5] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11030784/
[6] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9256908/
[7] https://hpvca.org/ahcc-shown-to-clear-hpv-infections/
[8] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Active-Hexose-Correlated-Compound-500mg/dp/B0BJP5F5NN
[9] https://www.timehealth.co.uk/product/600mg-high-strength-immune-support/
[10] https://www.verywellhealth.com/ahcc-benefits-and-safety-8400769

 

[Mary]

Hi @Carl - thanks so much for all the info! I hadn't realized there were two forms of cordyceps, sinensis and militaris and that the most common cultivated form is militaris. and I know nothing about cordycepin - I'll have to read up on all of this and do some experimenting - I really appreciate all the information -

 

[Violeta]

Reishi is antiviral, and it's very helpful for sleep issues.

 

[pamojja]

I've been looking at this product by Life Extension: https://www.iherb.com/pr/life-exten...uLUmjhqfDb0bhpyYcUMwwgTfLgtPKheBoCSHIQAvD_BwE - the reviews are pretty good and the price is not bad.

Pilzmischung (Shiitake, Maitake, Chaga [Fruchtkörper] [Pulver])	400 mg	**
Wellmune® (hochgereinigtes Beta-1,3/1,6-Glucan aus einem einzigartigen Stamm von Bäckerhefe)	250 mg	**

To me its overpriced, because there are only 30 capsules in a bottle, then not even mushroom extracts, which one would usually get for a similar or lower price, but 60 capsules.

I would prefer either different mushroom extract bottles and alternate intake, or one mixed. But at least twice a day, that 400mg as extracts. However, start with lower doses.

Mushroom powders are relatively cheaply available in ~200 g pouches for lower prices. Of course, have to be dosed higher to have the same strength as mushroom extract.

Also, BetaGlucan at that dose can be had much cheaper.

 

[Mary]

Reishi is antiviral, and it's very helpful for sleep issues.

I had no idea reishi helped with sleep, will definitely look into it, thanks!

 

[pamojja]

I had no idea

Neither did I, even taking them for years as extract (about 800 mg/d) or powders (about 600 mg/d addionally) before asking specifically perplexity:

Distinct Medical Effects of Major Medicinal Mushrooms​

Mushroom	Distinct Medical Effects	Key Phytonutrients to Standardize
Cordyceps	- Boosts athletic performance and energy (ATP production, VO2 max) - Anti-fatigue, anti-aging, enhances libido - Immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory - May help manage blood sugar and cholesterol - Supports respiratory and kidney health - Potential anti-cancer and heart-protective effects	Cordycepin, adenosine, β-glucans, polysaccharides12456
Reishi	- Immune system modulation - Anti-cancer and anti-inflammatory - Supports heart and liver health - Stress reduction, sleep improvement, and anti-fatigue	Triterpenes, β-glucans, polysaccharides
Shiitake	- Immune system support - Cholesterol-lowering - Antimicrobial and anti-cancer properties - Supports heart health	Lentinan (β-glucan), eritadenine, polysaccharides
Chaga	- Strong antioxidant and anti-inflammatory - Immune modulation - Potential anti-cancer effects - Supports skin and digestive health	Betulinic acid, melanin, polysaccharides, β-glucans
Lion’s Mane	- Cognitive enhancement and neuroprotection - May support nerve growth and repair - Anti-anxiety and antidepressant effects - Immune support	Hericenones, erinacines, polysaccharides, β-glucans
Turkey Tail	- Potent immune modulation (notably in cancer adjunct therapy) - Gut health support (prebiotic effects) - Antioxidant	Polysaccharide-K (PSK), polysaccharide-peptide (PSP), β-glucans
Maitake	- Immune system support - Blood sugar regulation - Potential anti-cancer and cholesterol-lowering effects	D-fraction (β-glucan), polysaccharides
ABM (Agaricus blazei Murill)	- Immune enhancement - Anti-cancer and anti-inflammatory - Supports liver health	β-glucans, polysaccharides, ergosterol
ACCH (Antrodia camphorata/Antrodia cinnamomea)	- Liver protection - Anti-cancer and anti-inflammatory - Supports metabolic and immune health	Triterpenoids, polysaccharides, β-glucans

Note:

• For all, the most evidence-backed extracts are standardized for β-glucans and other polysaccharides.
• For specific mushrooms, look for unique compounds (cordycepin in Cordyceps, hericenones/erinacines in Lion’s Mane, PSK/PSP in Turkey Tail, triterpenoids in Reishi and Antrodia).

References:
Cordyceps effects and phytonutrients are supported by multiple human and animal studies, particularly for energy, immunity, anti-aging, and organ protection12456.
For other species, the summary is based on established research consensus regarding their unique bioactive compounds and clinical effects.

1. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/cordyceps-benefits
2. https://health.clevelandclinic.org/cordyceps-benefits
3. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92758/
4. https://antioxi-supplements.com/blogs/our-mushroom-blogs/4-health-benefits-of-cordyceps
5. https://draxe.com/nutrition/cordyceps/
6. https://www.verywellhealth.com/benefits-of-cordyceps-89441
7. https://integrishealth.org/resources/on-your-health/2023/february/cordyceps-mushrooms
8. https://www.hsnstore.eu/blog/nutrition/mushrooms/cordyceps/benefits/

No wonder, my main were Cordyceps and Reishi, followed by Shiitake, ahead of all others.

 

[Mary]

Thanks @pamojja ! I tried cordyceps , maybe 16 or 17 years ago and, didn’t notice anything. - however, I also had several nutritional deficiencies. I wasn’t aware of at that time, including low folate, low B1, low B6 and quite possibly low potassium as well, all of which have now been remedied so I want to try cordyceps again because I think I’m in a better position how to see if it can actually help me -

I also was dealing with a lot of toxicity, which I no longer have to struggle with either, which could make it difficult to know what the heck was going on!

 

[Wayne]

I know very little about mushrooms in general, except I like eating them!

Hi @Mary -- I like your idea of experimenting with mushrooms. I'm planning on doing a significant experimental regimen myself in the next few months (hopefully). I was actually inspired by some accounts coming out of Japan back in the 1980's which I never forgot--not bad for an ME/CFS memory eh?

I just did a quick query on AI to see if it could find any of those "accounts" or studies. It was an interesting reply, which I'll put in the link. I found it interesting it provided a link to our very own Phoenix Rising forum. -- Good luck!

Spoiler: 1980's Japanese Research on Mushrooms

Back in the 1980's when I first got ME/CFS (called CFS or CFIDS), I recall a study done in Japan using mushrooms. The results were apparently quite significant, but then I didn't hear of any followup. Can you locate that study(ies)? And review and summarize them? And provide a link?

ChatGPT said:
Thought for 4 seconds
Here are the key Japanese studies you remembered from the 1980s–90s involving mushroom extracts for CFS, with summaries and links:

---

1. Lentinan (from Shiitake) – Dr. Aoki, mid-1980s

• Details: Lentinan injections (1 mg every other day) were administered to patients diagnosed with low natural-killer–cell syndrome (LNKS), equivalent to CFS.
• Findings (1985): Patients experienced gradual improvement—less fatigue, normalized body temperature, and restored NK cell activity—with “complete recovery in the majority … within a few months” pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov+15barbfeick.com+15reddit.com+15.
• Follow-up (1987): In a trial of 23 patients aged 14–77, NK activity normalized after ~6 months of treatment; fevers resolved within weeks and overall well-being improved barbfeick.com.

Unfortunately, I couldn’t locate an online publication of these specific trials. They’re referenced in secondary sources but may lack formal journal articles or remain behind paywalls.

---

2. Schizophyllan (SPG) from Schizophyllum commune – Dr. Uchida, early 1990s

• Details: SPG is a β‑glucan similar to lentinan, derived from S. commune, manufactured by Kaken Pharmaceutical (Tokyo).
• Findings (1992–1993): In an initial cohort of 11 CFS patients treated orally with 20 mg/day: 10 experienced significant improvement; 3 returned to work, the rest regained normal life and NK-cell activity. In an expanded group of ~30 international patients, ~50% fully recovered for more than six months forums.phoenixrising.me+1hbot.com+1.

These findings were reported via patient forums and a book (“Shiitake: The Healing Mushroom”), but a peer-reviewed journal version appears absent.

---

What We Know & Where to Look Further

• These early open-label reports suggest immune-enhancing benefits (notably restoration of NK cell function) and substantial symptom improvement in CFS patients.
• However, formal clinical trial publications are elusive—they may exist in Japanese medical journals not readily available online.
• You might find them in archives of Kaken Pharmaceutical or through Shinrakuen Hospital and Kyoto University (Drs. Aoki & Uchida).

---

References & Further Information

• Summary of lentinan studies: shiitake CFS treatment by Dr. Aoki (1985 & 1987) reddit.com+6barbfeick.com+6forums.phoenixrising.me+6reddit.com
• SPG/Schizophyllan patient-reported improvements ~1992 in small cohorts forums.phoenixrising.me

---

In Summary

Extract	Year	Outcome	Source
Lentinan	1985–87	~Majority recovered, NK activity normalized	Aoki, Shinrakuen (no journal)
SPG (Schizophyllan)	1992–93	~50% complete recovery in ~30 patients	Uchida, patient reports/book

Though compelling, these lack large-scale controlled trials or peer-reviewed publications. To locate full texts, consider contacting Japanese institutions or researchers involved (e.g., Shinrakuen, Kyoto Univ, Kaken Pharma).

 

[pamojja]

I tried cordyceps , maybe 16 or 17 years ago and, didn’t notice anything. - however,

Note, I didn't mention any of the more than 200 Supplements I took for 16 years. With rather few exceptions to rather minor symptoms, compared to my main chronic conditions.

I did, however, see in my lab-tests, that the majority of my bodily systems need serious support. Therefore, supplemented, considering all. With so many supplements amd comprehensive life-style changes. And instead of noticing by experience, I noticed my lab marker improving nevertheless.

COPD took 3 years, PAD 3 years later, the most intractable was remission from PEM another 3 years. So 9 years for the worst symptoms. Without feeling any improvements there before. Of course, experienced minor symptoms alleviation before is welcome too. But I differ from some on the forum, who only take what they can feel, and only that long.

I was however lucky, that I had only 3 bad effects (Mg-deficiency by high vitamin D, bad copper zinc ratio by following the advice to balance with copper, and choline at certain dose not tolerated before increasing inositol too), So not at all any intolerance to supplements, as is so common with ME/CFS.

What was shocking to me with this perplexity inquiry was, what I took has also effects on my diseases. It's almost as AI could predict my major disease with only 3 mushrooms I took! What would it predict if I fed it my more than 200, including dosages?

 

[L'engle]

I've used a few different kinds of mushrooms on their own. Reishi is supposed to help the immune system but it has a stimulant effect so not what you're looking for. Chaga and Lion's Mane are sedating. I find Lion's Mane quite relaxing, though I became too tired in the day if I kept taking it. Chaga seems milder.

If I had to guess I would say cordyceps could be stimulating as well.

The complexes have so many things in them I'd be concerned about any one thing causing side effects, especially if you're trying to avoid insomnia.

 

[pamojja]

With more than 200 variables, I take those stimulating in the morning. Interestingly, taken in the morning it still takes up to 3 PM, until I can start my day.

And fittingly, I work 60% in night shifts. Twice a week, usually in a row, because it would cost me 4 days instead of 3, with no energy for anything else, otherwise. With my limited energy envelope and sleep needs, despite having overcome PEMs.

 

[Violeta]

Hi @Mary -- I like your idea of experimenting with mushrooms. I'm planning on doing a significant experimental regimen myself in the next few months (hopefully). I was actually inspired by some accounts coming out of Japan back in the 1980's which I never forgot--not bad for an ME/CFS memory eh?

I just did a quick query on AI to see if it could find any of those "accounts" or studies. It was an interesting reply, which I'll put in the link. I found it interesting it provided a link to our very own Phoenix Rising forum. -- Good luck!

Spoiler: 1980's Japanese Research on Mushrooms

Back in the 1980's when I first got ME/CFS (called CFS or CFIDS), I recall a study done in Japan using mushrooms. The results were apparently quite significant, but then I didn't hear of any followup. Can you locate that study(ies)? And review and summarize them? And provide a link?

ChatGPT said:
Thought for 4 seconds
Here are the key Japanese studies you remembered from the 1980s–90s involving mushroom extracts for CFS, with summaries and links:

---

1. Lentinan (from Shiitake) – Dr. Aoki, mid-1980s

• Details: Lentinan injections (1 mg every other day) were administered to patients diagnosed with low natural-killer–cell syndrome (LNKS), equivalent to CFS.
• Findings (1985): Patients experienced gradual improvement—less fatigue, normalized body temperature, and restored NK cell activity—with “complete recovery in the majority … within a few months” pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov+15barbfeick.com+15reddit.com+15.
• Follow-up (1987): In a trial of 23 patients aged 14–77, NK activity normalized after ~6 months of treatment; fevers resolved within weeks and overall well-being improved barbfeick.com.

Unfortunately, I couldn’t locate an online publication of these specific trials. They’re referenced in secondary sources but may lack formal journal articles or remain behind paywalls.

---

2. Schizophyllan (SPG) from Schizophyllum commune – Dr. Uchida, early 1990s

• Details: SPG is a β‑glucan similar to lentinan, derived from S. commune, manufactured by Kaken Pharmaceutical (Tokyo).
• Findings (1992–1993): In an initial cohort of 11 CFS patients treated orally with 20 mg/day: 10 experienced significant improvement; 3 returned to work, the rest regained normal life and NK-cell activity. In an expanded group of ~30 international patients, ~50% fully recovered for more than six months forums.phoenixrising.me+1hbot.com+1.

These findings were reported via patient forums and a book (“Shiitake: The Healing Mushroom”), but a peer-reviewed journal version appears absent.

---

What We Know & Where to Look Further

• These early open-label reports suggest immune-enhancing benefits (notably restoration of NK cell function) and substantial symptom improvement in CFS patients.
• However, formal clinical trial publications are elusive—they may exist in Japanese medical journals not readily available online.
• You might find them in archives of Kaken Pharmaceutical or through Shinrakuen Hospital and Kyoto University (Drs. Aoki & Uchida).

---

References & Further Information

• Summary of lentinan studies: shiitake CFS treatment by Dr. Aoki (1985 & 1987) reddit.com+6barbfeick.com+6forums.phoenixrising.me+6reddit.com
• SPG/Schizophyllan patient-reported improvements ~1992 in small cohorts forums.phoenixrising.me

---

In Summary

Extract	Year	Outcome	Source
Lentinan	1985–87	~Majority recovered, NK activity normalized	Aoki, Shinrakuen (no journal)
SPG (Schizophyllan)	1992–93	~50% complete recovery in ~30 patients	Uchida, patient reports/book

Though compelling, these lack large-scale controlled trials or peer-reviewed publications. To locate full texts, consider contacting Japanese institutions or researchers involved (e.g., Shinrakuen, Kyoto Univ, Kaken Pharma).

Looking forward to reading about your experiment.

I think I will try shiitake.

 

[Mary]

I was actually inspired by some accounts coming out of Japan back in the 1980's which I never forgot--not bad for an ME/CFS memory eh?

I think that's actually quite remarkable, seriously! Have you been ill since the 1980's? I didn't know it had been that long. I got hit in 1998.

As for AI - that's truly amazing what it came up with for you! I think I'm being dragged kicking and screaming into the age of AI (is my age showing? pun intended!) anyways, thanks so much for posting this, and another reminder to use AI. I will look at it more later - and I will - it really looks intriguing. Do keep posting about AI - I keep forgetting about it!

I'm posting something generated by AI here. it's a long story, my 2-year old black male cat, adopted almost 5 weeks ago from the local shelter, had to have emergency surgery almost 3 weeks ago (!), I won't go into the details, it's complicated but he is almost fully recovered and more than ready to have his damn cone removed, as am I! So one of my sons created this image using AI in WhatsApp for a cone party this Friday! Another example of what AI can do - I'm considering changing my avatar (at least temporarily) in his honor (both my son and the cat!) Hope I'm not derailing the thread here, though I started it . . .

 

[Mary]

The complexes have so many things in them I'd be concerned about any one thing causing side effects, especially if you're trying to avoid insomnia.

You're absolutely right. I've learned the hard way to look at all the ingredients in complexes - e.g., B6 is supposed to be good for sleep, right? and it's added to a lot of sleep aids - only it gives me insomnia! But I'm quite ignorant about mushrooms right now and appreciate all the info here. I was a bit desperate to do something for my immune system the other day so ordered the LE product without enough research. At least I have learned to pay close attention to how I react to things . . .

 

[Rufous McKinney]

my 2-year old black male cat, adopted almost 5 weeks ago from the local shelter, had to have emergency surgery almost 3 weeks ago (!), I won't go into the details, it's

I recall you had a recent pet emergency, I'm so glad your cute cat is doing better.

 

[Violeta]

I can tell you that there are the most amazing studies about chaga, but it's high in oxalates. Not everyone needs to worry about oxalates, but thought I would mention it.

Although if it's one of several ingredients in a 500mg capsule, I don't think it would cause anyone problems.

 

[Mary]

I recall you had a recent pet emergency, I'm so glad your cute cat is doing better.

Thanks @Rufous McKinney - he is very cute and doing very well, and is very impatient to get rid of the cone! I'll do a longer post about him later in a more appropriate thread