Can a unhealthy liver cause cognitive disturbances?

[valentinelynx]

Is it true that doctors take a cut every time they put a patient on a drug?

What?! No! That's ridiculous; where did you hear that?

Doctors are actually under very strict anti-kickback laws. It would be illegal to take a payment from a drug manufacturer for writing a prescription. It's also illegal to refer a patient to a facility you have a financial interest in. This doesn't mean this sort of thing doesn't happen. Every once in a while I see an offer for some sketchy scheme where someone wants to pay doctors to prescribe something, usually a device, but I did see one for prescribing "pain creams". I think that one was a Medicare fraud: the outfit would charge Medicare for the device and pay the doc for the Rx. Getting caught up in Medicare fraud is a guaranteed way to be shut down not only by your state medical board, but the FBI!

Some people complain about drug reps bringing lunches and pens to doctors, and a lot of hospitals have prohibited the practice. Basic psychology shows that you are more likely to prescribe something you are more familiar with, or have heard about more recently. A few docs have made good money giving lectures on drugs to their peers or patients and getting speaker fees from drug companies. That's legal.

 

[sb4]

@valentinelynx I fought it might be some kind of American thing. I decided to google it and first result was this. Claims from 2007-10 drug companies paid $7B in lawsuits for paying docs to push off label drugs. Don't seem to provide sources for this but I can imagine drug companies doing some shady stuff.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

What an effing nightmare, @valentinelynx , and so glad that you survived it. Grace of God, and one dedicated, determined Dr, bless him. Or her, as the case may be.

There's an old Spanish proverb dating from approx the 13th/14th century, which I've quoted here before: "Si se curo fue La Virgen, Si se murio, fue el doctor", which translates to: "If they were cured, it was The Virgin (Mary), If they died, it was the Dr", so not much has changed.

Do they think educating doctors about the risks of NSAID enteropathy would be damaging to the marketing campaign?

Yup.

It's almost like there's a conspiracy of silence about NSAID enteropathy. Are the makers of NSAIDs blackmailing this startup company somehow: forcing them to keep silent about the greater threat of NSAID enteropathy?

That's where I'm putting my money, but then, I'm a pretty deep cynic when it comes to doctors these days, and the intrusive, overwhelming power of BigPharm.

I have a tendency to preach on this topic with the hope of preventing others from going through what I have. Please be careful with those NSAIDs!

This is a terrific post, and thank you so much for both the post and the valuable links you enclosed with it.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@sb4

Is it true that doctors take a cut every time they put a patient on a drug?

Almost indubitably. They don;t necessarily get a check for it, which would be way too easy to trace, but they get numerous perks, including extremely lucrative speaking engagements, funded by various pharma companies, and equally lucrative fundings for colleges and universities that teach from BigPharma's textbook.

It pains me to disagree with @valentinelynx, whose posts are always extremely well-informed and helpful and invariably well-grounded, but on this one issue, we diverge.

A few docs have made good money giving lectures on drugs to their peers or patients and getting speaker fees from drug companies. That's legal.

And not even marginally different from standard "pay-for-play" schemes, from record company payola on.

And the notion that Drs follow the rules, like not referring patients to companies or services that they have a financial interest in, is erroneous. My mother was referred to an extended care facility that was horrendous, almost Dickensian, owned by a company that was founded and owned by one of the partners in the practice that referred, and was treating her, which I didn;t discover til several years after her death in that same facility. My PET scans during and following cancer treatment were done at a facility that I later discovered was co-owned by my treating physician.

I decided to google it and first result was this. Claims from 2007-10 drug companies paid $7B in lawsuits for paying docs to push off label drugs. Don't seem to provide sources for this but I can imagine drug companies doing some shady stuff.

Right there with you, @sb4.

 

[valentinelynx]

@sb4

Almost indubitably. They don;t necessarily get a check for it, which would be way too easy to trace, but they get numerous perks, including extremely lucrative speaking engagements, funded by various pharma companies, and equally lucrative fundings for colleges and universities that teach from BigPharma's textbook.

It pains me to disagree with @valentinelynx, whose posts are always extremely well-informed and helpful and invariably well-grounded, but on this one issue, we diverge.

And not even marginally different from standard "pay-for-play" schemes, from record company payola on.

And the notion that Drs follow the rules, like not referring patients to companies or services that they have a financial interest in, is erroneous. My mother was referred to an extended care facility that was horrendous, almost Dickensian, owned by a company that was founded and owned by one of the partners in the practice that referred, and was treating her, which I didn;t discover til several years after her death in that same facility. My PET scans during and following cancer treatment were done at a facility that I later discovered was co-owned by my treating physician.

Right there with you, @sb4.

Yes, some doctors do bad things. That's why there are laws. No, most doctors don't do those things. They are illegal. The idea that all doctors are out getting "lucrative speaking fees" is wrong. It's like saying, all people are criminals because some are.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

No, most doctors don't do those things.

The ones I'm familiar with thru first-hand experience were highly lauded, respected members of the medical community.

The idea that all doctors are out getting "lucrative speaking fees" is wrong.

This is true. The ones who reap the highly beneficial speaker's fees and engagements generally have a high, and respected, profile. Those who don't are of little interest to pharma companies trying to advance both their cause and their products.

 

[indigokid]

One of the reasons I didn't become a medical writer a few years back was I read of one writer's day job involved managing medical professionals who would promote their products/research. Each one could be rewarded with a holiday/money/perks for any positive reference they made at conferences and in publications.

I once got roped into setting up a petition to stop the General Practitioners Council in the UK greenlighting the idea that GPs should bill patients for routine visits (double charging effectively). While doing this I found the head of the GPC and colleagues were out for dinner the night before the event where they were to pitch this idea and were also blocking the petition. They were out for dinner with a private medical lobbying group the largest in the UK. I looked into the group and found a positioning document that showed how they wanted to introduce the GP fees first, followed by taxi fees for ambulances and then hotel fees for hospital visits.

Then you have the freebie giveaways like the GAD-9 and GAD-7 anxiety check sheets. 'Diagnostic' documents designed by the drug companies for conditions their medicines treat.

There's a number of ways they game the system without appearing too.

 

[Belgiangirl]

The liver plays a very important role and is overlooked in Western medicine. The Chinese understand this well btw.

The liver can be attacked in ME (and many other diseases) for several reasons including the high oxidative stress that occurs from immune activation. Not only does this burden the liver with more toxins but it also uses up the available antioxidants.

Addressing liver stagnation was a major turning point for me. An important factor was using things to collect the toxins such as Pascalite clay or bulk charcoal. These will escort the toxins out of the body so you do not reabsorb the toxins.

I do believe that a "sick liver" can cause problems.
I have hyperbilirubenia, when it raises even more this attack the brain directly.
Also obviously after drinking alcohol, i always heart that for even 1 glass of beer your liver needs to detox 24 hrs to clarify again, some medication take long. Add preservatives, environmental pollutions we aren't even aware of, petrol fumes, .. anything to the list and it get quiet full.
How this will negatively affect the brain - i don't have the answer too: guess a busy liver is less good at filtering harming substances: leaving them circulating and making your blood brain barrier fragile.
If the blood brain barrier can be crossed: you have problems.

I guess this is the path?
But I am also interested in a possible liver detox (and having less brainfog) I bought (the expensive) GLUTHATION that is said to clean the liver but indeed as i may believe science that is where the mess begins because if they will be released in your blood???
it is a special form of glutathion though i don't dare to use it.

 

[Reading_Steiner]

Just did a test via the NHS and got low Vitamin D, but not extremely low, and I got what seems like very high ALT ( 140 ), they want me to do an ultrasound etc. By the sounds of it, this increase seems to correlate with the onset of the me/cfs, as the oldest reading the doctor could find on record was 40, which was just after onset of me/cfs, tests 6 monthes to 18 months later showed a reading of 120, which they never informed me about which is a little bit annoying, but they said that if its just one aberrant result they don't take it seriously because it could be caused by a transient event.

I'm guessing this is a side effect of ME/CFS rather than causative, I guess it could have something to do with the HHV6 / EBV hypothesis, or as someone said, oxidative stress.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I'm guessing this is a side effect of ME/CFS rather than causative, I guess it could have something to do with the HHV6 / EBV hypothesis, or as someone said, oxidative stress.

I think @Belgiangirl, who posted directly above your post, put it pretty well.

The liver's functions are critical to just about every system and organ in our body, including the brain, and a poorly functioning liver could possibly cause some, if not to some degree all, the salient symptoms of ME .... at least it seems to make sense ....