brain inflammation, vaccines, CFS

[cporro]

not trying to start a heated debate here. people are free to dismiss this theory but i think it should be part of the discussion. last week i read this great article on brain inflammation/damage, vaccination history, and the emergence of certain chronic diseases. it's LONG but there are very few articles that cover a broad historical perspective like this one. i have been in this space (what some call "antivaxx" but is really just people wanting proper safety testing, informed consent, and no mandates) for 14 years. and i have read a lot about vaccines. i have come to the conclusion that when industry is causing the health problem it will not be looked into. there will be no studies done. no money available.

here is the article on substack: https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/how-much-damage-have-vaccines-done

my extremely fast breakdown of his article (which misses a lot of points) is that vaccines can cause brain damage and inflammation. I believe the mechanism is via an immune response. most people don't know this but vaccines generally contain a component that is design to provoke a strong immune reaction. this is not the pathogen itself as you might suspect. it's called an adjuvant. examples of this are Thimerosal (contains mercury) and aluminum salts. vaccines are a product designed to permanently (or at least for years) alter your immune response to a specific pathogen. however, i find it hard to believe it can have this very specific effect without altering other aspects of the immune system. and then there is the toxicity of the adjuvant itself.

so lately i've been focused on the immune system/ brain inflammation angle. this means using different keywords like treating encephalopathy, encephalitis, reducing inflation markers. searching pubmed for studies.

my current theory (after eliminating many others) is i was injured by vaccination early in life. i have had issues for years. strange events in childhood consistent with vaccine injury. and now, unfortunately, would put myself in the chronic fatigue category.

if you look into the covid injury data (vaers, v-safe) you will see it has unprecidented injury and death rates. you will also see all manner of explanations for these injuries and deaths that don't involve the vaccine. none of these stories will lead back to the vaccine. and it got me wondering if CFS might be similar. another mystery illness baffling most mainstream doctors. doctors who prefer to keep their medical license.

perhaps someone with a broader understanding of CFS history can put some pieces together. CFS outbreaks around new vaccines? bad vaccine batches? vaccines can definitely reactivate dormant viral infections as we've seen with covid. so you could get a group of vaccinated having what appeared to be a viral infection. that would be confusing.

i realize that some of this may seem like wild speculation or just crazy talk. 20 years ago i would have thought the same thing. i used to get all my shots. but, if i'm honest, i knew nothing about vaccines. i'm on a different page now but it took about 6 months of research for that to happen back around 2010. i am still not categorically against vaccines. i evaluate them one at a time with a set of criteria.

thoughts?

 

[hapl808]

i realize that some of this may seem like wild speculation or just crazy talk. 20 years ago i would have thought the same thing. i used to get all my shots. but, if i'm honest, i knew nothing about vaccines. i'm on a different page now but it took about 6 months of research for that to happen back around 2010. i am still not categorically against vaccines. i evaluate them one at a time with a set of criteria.

Yep, 20 years ago (when I had received a Hep B shot because…why not?), this would've all sounded crazy. However, there is significant signal in the data that sometimes, some people may have bad reactions.

Unfortunately, this is not only controversial - but like you said, no one will rigorously study this because the liability and anger would be intense. With the Hep B shot (which would explain many of my symptoms), France had a huge uptick in multiple sclerosis-like illnesses being diagnosed. The US did a review of the data (no biological study), and decided the uptick was within 'normal' expectations. Case closed.

It's also peculiar from a logic perspective that they insist the only vaccine reactions are temporary (anaphylaxis which is hard to pretend isn't happening), and any chronic issues are impossible - yet at the same time insist it changes your immune system for the better for years or a lifetime.

Like many throughout history, we're playing with things we don't understand. Not dissimilar to the immature days of Silicon Valley - move fast and break things. Sadly, sometimes we tend to be those 'things' that are broken.

I have no idea what to do about any of this, because even raising the issue gets you branded crazy. Like the early concerns about myocarditis or pericarditis that were originally dismissed. Then they said the virus did it worse (which I believe), but didn't really comment about people getting vaccinated would still get the virus - so what we needed was: what's the risk with covid, vs the risk with the vaccine and covid.

Anyways, the short answer is that propaganda is such that I would've thought you crazy 20 years ago, but now I don't. But I expect anyone not suffering ill effects will mostly be where we were 20 years ago - doubting all of us.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9635015/

 

[cporro]

Anyways, the short answer is that propaganda is such that I would've thought you crazy 20 years ago, but now I don't. But I expect anyone not suffering ill effects will mostly be where we were 20 years ago - doubting all of us.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9635015/

propaganda. you hit the nail on the head. i am in awe of the power of propaganda. i wish the public had a better understanding of how it works and how often they are subjected to it.


have you checked vaers for the hep b vaccine at that time? not that it matters now. just for curiosity sake. you can go by product, time, even lot number. it's amazing that it's still open to the public.

hep b is now given to infants on day 1. 😥

 

[hapl808]

have you checked vaers for the hep b vaccine at that time? not that it matters now. just for curiosity sake. you can go by product, time, even lot number. it's amazing that it's still open to the public.

I haven't, because France had a national healthcare system and I believe their diagnoses of MS-like disorders went up 400% after the vaccine was rolled out. Possibly more evident there because it wasn't rolled out in stages like it was in the USA.

My own symptoms started a week after getting the vaccine, but since I was traveling and got 'sick', it never occurred to me that a vaccine was related until stumbling across the French research in recent years.

Not sure it matters - I'd never be able to prove it, and not sure it changes my treatment efforts. I've tried pretty much all the protocols related to that stuff in one form or another (usually the treatments for vaccine injuries are similar to other chronic illness protocols).

Just unfortunate, as I really wasn't in any Hep B risk group other than travel.

 

[Faith2007]

I think it would be beneficial to understand the state of one's immune system before receiving the vaccination, especially in the case of immune deficiency or immune suppression and the level of severity of that before receiving the vaccination. Another consideration is whether or not the vaccination is live or inactive. Here's an article that discusses this idea:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462293/

Many patients' ME/CFS began with a virus, which doesn't rule out the possibility that some people began with a vaccination issue. Would the immune system's response to somebody getting vaccinated against the virus be the same or similar to that of somebody getting the virus without the vaccination?

An immune system's reaction to a virus can cause tissue damage.

Infections and viruses can cause cancer: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18805702/

About 4-6 weeks before I developed ME/CFS I had HPV. A month later I went through a course of 3 antibiotics, one of which landed me in the ER to combat what was thought to be an infection due to blood in my urine, but ended up not really being that. Then my fatigue bounced up and down for a couple of months that went into full blown ME/CFS. I was tested 2 years later to show I had immune deficiency, and another 8-10 years after that to show I had autoimmune thyroiditis. Autoimmune diseases and cancer of the thyroid are in my family history. You will see how what happened to me plays into this article which discusses how viruses could be the trigger for autoimmunity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3899649/#CR1

The issue is, I don't know when the immune deficiency and autoimmune thyroiditis started, but I must say I am very suspicious of the immune system's role in contributing to the start of ME/CFS whether or not it is via vaccination or virus. In other words, would we have gotten ME/CFS if we had a healthy immune system? So at this point I blame the immune system, working my way up to what controls the immune system, among other factors, not specifically a virus or vaccination, even though a virus or vaccination may have set it off for people who have ME/CFS.

I got the Gardasil vaccination 6 months after I had ME/CFS, due to risk factors associated with having gotten HPV. I didn't develop new symptoms on top of that. I also had the Shingles vaccination this year, and didn't develop new symptoms on top of that either. I may not react as well to vaccinations, but it's nothing compared to what getting viruses like HPV combined with antibiotics and COVID-19 twice have done to me.

Can you be sure it was a vaccination, not a virus during childhood, that set off your ME/CFS?

 

[hapl808]

So at this point I blame the immune system, working my way up to what controls the immune system, among other factors, not specifically a virus or vaccination, even though a virus or vaccination may have set it off for people who have ME/CFS.

I agree, but the point is that it may not be a virus OR a vaccination - it may be both, or some combination of other factors. I do also blame the immune system, but that's like blaming genetics if you die from malaria - sure, if you had sickle cell maybe you'd be protected, but it's still malaria that kills you.

Can you be sure it was a vaccination, not a virus during childhood, that set off your ME/CFS?

Cannot be sure that it is. Cannot be sure that it isn't.

My symptoms started exactly seven days after vaccination. But it's very possible I contracted a virus coincidentally at that time, so I have no way to know.

The only part that frustrates me is that the medical establishment confidently insists that it's never vaccination, so they refuse to even consider the matter further. Even though we can't say any of that because we have no clue what is causing it.

It seems to be some sort of immune dysregulation. Both vaccines and viruses affect the immune system, as do many other things. So we need to figure out what's going on.

All I want is active study in all these areas, and we're not doing that, either.

 

[Hip]

The Midwestern doctor says this:

This in turn suggests that taking a large number of vaccines (presently the ever increasing CDC schedule gives children 90 before they turn 18) puts them at risk for developing chronic disease.

However, in fact modern advanced vaccines expose people to fewer antigens than older "dirty" vaccines which each contained many antigens.

So actually, in the current vaccine schedule, people have a lower exposure to antigens than in previous times in vaccination history.

this is not the pathogen itself as you might suspect. it's called an adjuvant. examples of this are Thimerosal (contains mercury) and aluminum salts.

Thiomersal is not an adjuvant but a preservative. It was largely removed from vaccines due to public pressure, and due to antivax groups, who believed it was responsible for the autism epidemic. This does not make much sense, because you get more mercury in your bloodstream from eating a can of tuna than you do from the thiomersal in vaccines. Nevertheless, by public pressure this was removed. And autism rates continue to climb.

perhaps someone with a broader understanding of CFS history can put some pieces together. CFS outbreaks around new vaccines? bad vaccine batches?

There is one theory that the introduction of the poliovirus vaccine resulted in skyrocketing ME/CFS rates, as well as increase type 1 diabetes rates. See:

Did the introduction of the polio vaccine cause the massive rise in ME/CFS incidence in the 1980s?

 

[hapl808]

hiomersal is not an adjuvant but a preservative.

I wonder about the aluminum adjuvant in the Hep B vaccine I received. I also got a typhoid vaccine and polio booster (IPV), so it's hard to know. I have seen no reports about typhoid vaccine issues, but the IPV vs OPV stuff is interesting. Seems less likely to cause MS-like issues than the Hep B vaccine (which has had exactly that reported), but hard to know when the data is hard to find.

 

[Faith2007]

The only part that frustrates me is that the medical establishment confidently insists that it's never vaccination, so they refuse to even consider the matter further. Even though we can't say any of that because we have no clue what is causing it.

I hear your frustration and in no way wish to discount it. Since our governments aren't familiar with our illness, they can't say that a vaccination doesn't contribute to it. If they try to say that, we can just ignore them, because they haven't tested it on us. I wouldn't want the government to test its vaccines on me, though, for a study in advance, that's for sure.

I would like ME/CFS studies that concentrate on the immune system to begin in earnest as well. I'm not convinced we are medically advanced enough to study that well though, especially with the lack of knowledge in how our brains are connected to our immune system.

I am willing to share any information my ME/CFS specialist tells me about vaccinations, though. She was on top of it enough to warn me against getting the COVID-19 vaccinations since they used an autoimmune delivery system, while telling me which ones they were working on that didn't use an autoimmune delivery system. I wasn't on this site back then. I discuss any vaccination, medication, of supplement I wish to take with her first now. My naturopathic doctor is on top of it as well. I wouldn't trust any doctor that practices western medicine without considering alternative therapies to advise us on vaccinations.

 

[Wayne]

you get more mercury in your bloodstream from eating a can of tuna than you do from the thiomersal in vaccines.

A lot of vaccines are given to infants shortly after birth, often within less than an hour according to my understanding. Having a tiny body with an immature immune and digestive system hit with a dose of highly toxic mercury is much different than an adult eating a whole can of tuna. Not to mention all the adjuvents from a variety of other vaccines that are given at the same time. Simply incomprehensible to me that such practices persist.

 

[cporro]

Can you be sure it was a vaccination, not a virus during childhood, that set off your ME/CFS?

ha. i can't be sure of anything. 😂 but my mother has never mentioned a viral infection as a child. i did ask her about illness. but i know i got fully vaccinated. on a related note my mother had encephalitis after a measles shot when she was 4. very serious. was at a children's hospital for a stretch. long story short she has had issues since...much like CFS. this is one of the points of the article i posted.

just to be clear the idea is the immune system is damaged, made hypersensitive to non-threats, deregulated via vaccine. and this is manifested as autoimmune disease. i don't have to tell people here that there are many autoimmune diseases and they are on the rise. there are many shots for kids these days. in 1986 a law passed removing just about all of the liability for vaccine manufactures. after that many new vaccine products entered the market. the autism epidemic started in the 90s as did many other chronic problems with kids.

there are lots of things i will probably never get answers to. unless some amazing new tech comes along (like DNA testing for crimes in the 90s). i have to take my best guesses and try stuff. bummer.

the CDC and FDA have never done a study of vaxxed vs unvaxxed. and they use a very BS argument to defend that. it's not ethical. but they don't mention there are large unvaccinated populations like the amish and certain religious groups. there is also a very small group of unvaxxed kids outside those communities. but some small independent studies have been done and the unvaxxed are on net much healthier. basically no one is looking for collateral damage from vaccines.

all this tells me is it may be interesting to see how doctors treat vaccine injuries. a lot of doctors woke up during covid. protocols are out there. they are on my list of things to try.

 

[cporro]

Thiomersal is not an adjuvant but a preservative. It was largely removed from vaccines due to public pressure, and due to antivax groups, who believed it was responsible for the autism epidemic. This does not make much sense, because you get more mercury in your bloodstream from eating a can of tuna than you do from the thiomersal in vaccines. Nevertheless, by public pressure this was removed. And autism rates continue to climb.

a lot of this comes down to which experts you want to trust. 😂when Monsanto went into court for glyphosate they had their ivy league experts and so did the plaintiffs. the points you are making are well known industry points in my opinion. I’ve heard them for years. And certainly pharma can afford to outspend any opposition on messaging.

Now we have AI chatbots which are also getting it wrong. 😢But when i press them and ask for studies they back down and apologize. Start asking them about all the placebo based prelicensure trials for childhood vaccines. And then read the actual trials and see what the “placebo” is. 95% of these vaccines don’t have one.

we are in an era where a 30 minute google search or chatbot AI can give you completely wrong info on certain topics. ironcially a dark age in the information age. the real info is in books and communites of dissenters.

Anyway, i am tempted to dispute your points one by one (i mostly disagree). But frankly i’ve done enough of that in the last 14 years and it doesn't convince people. If people are interested they will tap into the health freedom communities. Some of them have excellent signal to noise ratios which is something i can’t say about any corporate media outlets these days.

 

[Hip]

A lot of vaccines are given to infants shortly after birth, often within less than an hour according to my understanding. Having a tiny body with an immature immune and digestive system hit with a dose of highly toxic mercury is much different than an adult eating a whole can of tuna. Not to mention all the adjuvents from a variety of other vaccines that are given at the same time. Simply incomprehensible to me that such practices persist.

Babies in the womb may be exposed to mercury if their mothers eat tuna, sushi or other mercury-containing fish during pregnancy.

Mercury in the womb exposure may be worse, because: (a) mercury exposure during foetal brain development is potentially more damaging than exposure after birth, and (b) methylmercury in fish is more toxic than the ethylmercury used in vaccines.

Yet nobody mounts massive "anti-tuna" campaigns on Facebook.

It's simply incomprehensible to me that the antivaxers were not able to think this through.

If they want to protect infants from mercury, they should be educating pregnanent women not to eat any mercury containing fish or cheap fish oil supplements containing mercury during their pregnancy.

But the antivaxers are silent about fish sources of mercury damaging the foetal brain. It shows that these antivaxers lack a sense of proportion, and are simply not aware of the facts. The antivaxers spend lots of money on emotional Facebook ads to rouse up public anxiety, but when it comes to fact and logic, they tend to fall short.

Embarrassingly for chief antivaxer Robert F. Kennedy Jr, his organisation was originally called "The World Mercury Project". But once mercury was removed from vaccines, and autism rates did not improve, he renamed his organisation "Children's Health Defense".


One study found that even the mercury from fish that crossed the placenta into the baby did not appear to affect scholastic performance.

For me, I would love to see research into why vaccines can trigger ME/CFS. One of Dr John Chia's studies suggests around 1 or 2% of ME/CFS cases are vaccine triggered. But we don't get any useful research like this from the antivax groups, because these groups don't have any decent scientists working for them.

 

[Faith2007]

on a related note my mother had encephalitis after a measles shot when she was 4.

Interesting you should mention that, since somebody I know has autoimmune encephalitis that they are blaming on the COVID-19 vaccination. But there was a stroke involved as well, so I'm not sure if that's the true cause, since the stroke may have come first.

I didn't realize doctors were treating vaccine injuries. I would be interested in hearing more about that.

 

[cporro]

Interesting you should mention that, since somebody I know has autoimmune encephalitis that they are blaming on the COVID-19 vaccination. But there was a stroke involved as well, so I'm not sure if that's the true cause, since the stroke may have come first.

I didn't realize doctors were treating vaccine injuries. I would be interested in hearing more about that.

stroke is one of the very common covid vaccine injuries. i'd have to check the current data but basically the big category is clotting (per many embalmers and doctors). if interested spend some time on the VAERS database. there is a mountain of solid evidence in certain places. it's been piling up for a few years now.

since you asked. everything i mention below has been attacked, censored, or discredited since covid. i'll save you a google. 😂 but after 14 years i think these are some of the best sources of info in the health freedom movement (AKA antivaxx to the uninitiated). most people do not understand what the movement is about.

injury databases: VAERS, v-safe.
VAERS (CDC and FDA) is a 30 year old database set up after the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA). it's not very good becasue it grossly under reports. has been for years. estimates are between 1-10% of injures are captured. v-safe was just for covid. covid data is much worse than public things.


doctors treating covid vaccine injuries: https://www.petermcculloughmd.com/, https://covid19criticalcare.com/protocol/i-recover-post-vaccine-treatment/
there are more but these are two sources i trust. and they can probably get you onto a lot more doctors. realize that doctors have lost thier licenses for treating covid (not even the vaccine injuries).


solid sources for vaccine injury and general info: https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender_category/covid/
i would start here. huge amount of data. they are conservative in thier reporting not hyped.

it's a bit overwhelming trying to explain this stuff. i realize that i'm on a whole other page than most people. don't know where to start. 😂but i'm sure people with CFS have a hard time describing thier illness to the public as well. i mean, why don't you just eat right, sleep, and exersize?

 

[Hip]

And certainly pharma can afford to outspend any opposition on messaging.

These days, pharmaceutical companies are not worried about lawsuits claiming for vaccine damages, as they are no longer legally liable for them. It's the government which is liable and picks up the tab.

Pharmaceutical companies are aware that vaccines can unpredictably cause adverse effects. So they said that if the government want them to make vaccines, then they want exoneration of all liability for these adverse effects, otherwise they are not going to agree to make vaccines. So governments had no choice but to agree to these terms.

This is why when adverse effects were caused by COVID vaccines, it is the government that pays compensation, not the pharma company.

 

[Faith2007]

since you asked. everything i mention below has been attacked, censored, or discredited since covid.

But that hasn't been done on this site, has it? From what I've read on the couple of the Covid vaccine injury treatment links you listed, these are the treatments people are using for Covid and ME/CFS on this site. That's what I'm after. Some of the stuff listed there my ME/CFS doc already has me on. However, there are some things I've never seen mentioned before. Which means I will likely look into them.

I have seen some limited pushback on alternative therapies here, but really those who seek alternative treatment far outweigh those that don't.

I would say extremism and posts saying somebody knows the exact cause or solution for all people with ME/CFS elicits a negative response here.

Btw, the doctors I see don't get in trouble for their treatment of Covid, since they are not purely western medicine docs, though they have a western medical education. They have gone directly against what the CDC recommends at times.

 

[cporro]

These days, pharmaceutical companies are not worried about lawsuits claiming for vaccine damages, as they are no longer legally liable for them. It's the government which is liable and picks up the tab.

yes. this started in 1986. with covid is was much worse though. covid was an EUA product AND it was mandated for some which is not supposed to happen. against Nuremberg Code and so on. and it was protected by the prep act....'cause a .35% mortality rate is an emergency. i guess. since a .18% mortality rate is a bad flu season. anyway, with the 1986 protection you could go through the hurdles of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (vaccine court) but i think very few covid injured will get compensated. we'll see.

the program is a disaster imo. incentivizing all the wrong things. low safety and high profit. you get what you incentivize.

 

[Gijs]

The question is: what was the chance of dying from Corona under the age of 70? 0.23%, Professor John Ioannidis

People did not need this vaccine, except for the risk groups and people who wanted a vaccine.

Besides the fact that the vaccine for Covid is not that effective at all and you can simply continue to infect other people if you have been vaccinated, the massive use of a new vaccine mRNA may have been irresponsible.

 

[Wishful]

I would like ME/CFS studies that concentrate on the immune system to begin in earnest as well.

Which immune system? We have several that are separate but which intercommunicate. I think that while it's likely that the body's immune systems may trigger ME, it's the brain's immune system that locks into an abnormal state and causes most of the symptoms. I definitely support more research into the brain's immune system, I worry that too much of the limited funding would go to studies of the body's immune system because that's easier to study (it's under the streetlight). I'd rather have those sorts of studies be funded by studies into diseases directly affected by the body's immune systems.

A recent article in Science Daily was about a newly-discovered communication link between cells, involving the transport channels through membranes. I can imagine hundreds of studies involving "the immune system" that focus only on cytokines (again, because that's easy), while the actual factor causing the problem is this new link. So I don't think that "more money for studying the immune system" is likely to solve ME, at least with the present state of determining which studies get funding.