Biomesight

[Osaca]

Does anybody have any proper information on the biomesight stool test https://biomesight.com/index ?

Here’s some of my questions:

• This test seems to have never been part of a study or have any scientific value, is that correct? From what I can tell this "Long-Covid study" they advertise is just a marketing scheme or am I wrong?
• How much value can a stool test have to measure what’s happening inside your gut microbiome, especially as it doesn’t measure anything that’s happening in the small intestine (the gut flora in the colon and small intestine are 2 completely different things)? It seems extremely undercomplex for a highly complex problem, I suppose that's why people in general like it?
• Did anybody track effects of diet/prebiotics/probiotics in relation to their test results?
• Did anybody take 2 tests to see if their results aren't simply pure nonsense?
• How do they manage to keep samples “fresh” during shipping?
• Are there better alternatives that have some scientifc value?

 

[Judee]

I was just wondering some of this after seeing @bertiedog mention a recent test. I think @godlovesatrier may have done the testing recently too. Ken Lassessen also talks about the service on his site a lot. https://cfsremission.com/top-microbiome-providers-with-discount-codes/

(One can see more of his posts by putting, "biomesight.com" in the search box on his site minus the quotes.)

I wonder about the report that comes back, what it looks like and if anyone has improved by following either Ken's or biomesight's recommendations.

 

[Osaca]

I was just wondering some of this after seeing @bertiedog mention a recent test. I think @godlovesatrier may have done the testing recently too. Ken Lassessen also talks about the service on his site a lot. https://cfsremission.com/top-microbiome-providers-with-discount-codes/

(One can see more of his posts by putting, "biomesight.com" in the search box on his site minus the quotes.)

I wonder about the report that comes back, what it looks like and if anyone has improved by following either Ken's or biomesight's recommendations.

I've been wondering about this for a long time. For me it doesn't even have to be "the best test out there" we're all so desperate that anything that has some scientific or other value suffices.

That being said I've never seen a single researcher or properly research focused patient recommend this test. It's always been other patients, always those that earn money by offering a discount code at the same time.

 

[Judee]

I don't think he is earning money on that code. It's possible, but Ken has never seemed to be someone to do that kind of thing so I doubt it. He only very recently started putting donation links on his site which he talks about here: https://cfsremission.com/contributions-why/

 

[consuegra]

This is an interesting subject.

My family and I do Biomesight testing. (We used to do Ubiome.) My daughter has ME. The rest of us are controls, more or less. Generally the Biomesight test has some consistency in repeated testing.

One instance involved a major shift in a way that was not able to be currently understood. Over time this aberration might reveal itself, including perhaps a poor stool sample.

The problem with 16s tests is the amount of information coming back. It is not an easy scenario to figure out. Ken Lassensen does an amazing job with cfsremission and Microbiomeprescription sites and YouTube videos.

For an older person microbiome testing is complicated. My 40 year old son whizzes through the programs and picks the drift up immediately. For me it is harder, learning mostly through repetition.

One thing is clear. One cannot complain about a lack of information. It is a complicated overload.

I have cured my microscopic colitis with Biomesight testing and various interventions suggested by testing. This convinces me of the obvious - gastros are out to lunch on the issue or microscopic colitis..

ME is a different matter, but it my belief that the gut has some major importance in the overall illness. And that by working on the gut, one can alleviate some things, but it is along term effort and one must be objective and patient.

Chris

 

[BrightCandle]

• The Long Covid testing is being collated under Long Covid participants, so they are looking for patterns in the gut associated with the disease. Indeed biomesight was used for ME/CFS microbiome analysis in past studies as well. One of the more interesting things places like Biomesight and large intestine tests have shown is that many diseases have a unique gut profile.
• There is a lot to unpick in the microbiome and there are still a lot of species we do not understand. There may also be ways in which the colonies work that mean we don't see species that are present. Saying that L Reuteri lives at the top of the small intestine and yet it shows up in the microbiome test. So while its at the end of the chain these tests clearly can see somewhat into the small intestine. We don't know what the tests are missing but we can compare ill to control for a variety of diseases and see a difference already and its noninvasive. There is a plan to make a pill you swallow that captures the biome at a particular location but its not something we can just buy yet.
• I did test before and after interventions. Probiotics didn't do anything useful for me that I could tell. Prebiotics did work however and I managed to raise and lower bacteria levels and balance my biome better. Also L Reuteri fermented milk reintroduced them permanently to my gut I had none before that. What I would now like is a lot more human derived biotics so I could reintroduce those species with fermented milk. I don't see any use of adding plant based probiotics based on my testing (which most are plant based). The only exception to that is Kefir where it cured my lactose intolerance but it also expanded some bad bacteria that are found in bad milk.
• I have done 3 now. There is a clear progression based on the actions I have taken. I really don't know what the accuracy is, but they seem relatively stable other than my interventions. I never went digging for that type of study but they probably do exist.
• IIRC they use a stabaliser for the DNA in the preparation. You don't just send them a shit in a box its a slightly more involved process involving just a rice grain sized piece of the stool swirled into the stabaliser and you send them that.
• I don't know.

 

[Judee]

Prebiotics did work however and I managed to raise and lower bacteria levels and balance my biome better. Also L Reuteri fermented milk reintroduced them permanently to my gut I had none before that.

Do you feel like the changes are improving ME symptoms at all esp energy levels, orthostatic issues (if you have those), and brain fog?

 

[BrightCandle]

Do you feel like the changes are improving ME symptoms at all esp energy levels, orthostatic issues (if you have those), and brain fog?

No, IMO having pursued this avenue for 3 years this is not a cause of any of the ME symptoms, just a downstream consequence. It has improved my gut function I have less bloating, pain and constipation and the variety of food I can eat has gone up and that is the extent of the benefits. No matter how hard I push this however and eat perfectly I can not eliminate the problem.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I'm also getting to the stage where firstly I can't control my gut microbiome that easily. I've been trying to recover from a crash for four months and my microbiome is painfully slow to move in the direction I want it to. Even if it does get there it may mean that I'm no better off.

I'm currently trying to lower bacteroides and increase firmicutes. I also got prausnitzii to 16% but since my crash it's about 4%. Bromii was also very high and crashed too since April. All of which isn't great for me.

I continue to get renal stones which only started after I began valtrex.

I'm at the stage where even though I have three years worth of biomesight data and my cut looks significantly better than it did. It's still super hard to change it and keeping ROS levels down, t and NK cell function and numbers up, is very important. That and taking extra antioxidants helps a wee bit too. But any stress of any kind makes me go backwards. As my job is very stressful I rarely stay in a good place for very long. But I am obviously extremely grateful I still have a job and can afford all these really expensive supplements and tests.

I do think a microbiome that is high in firmicutes and low in bacteroides is going to be important to ramping down general bodily inflammation. But it's not the root cause.

Remissionbiome is focused more on changing brain metabolites than shifting the microbiome - so they may be onto something different.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Forgot to say that the main thing that improved with inulin was that my physical weakness disappeared - which was a permanent change. And whenever I take it it has a strong calming anti inflammatory effect sometimes this change fluctuates a bit.

 

[Tsukareta]

I saw this thread a few weeks ago and I wanted to comment but I was logged out and I forgot where I wrote down my login details. I would recommend the Biomesight because its half the price of another 'leaky gut' test that I saw, ( Verisana one ), which I was not able to do because it requires complex process similar to the one for sending mycotoxin test to America, except this time they wanted to send through FedEx not UPS so I couldn't just take it to my own town, so I decided to do the Biomesight test instead, which I only had to take just out of my street to mail.

Because I got inconclusive results from using my AIRE 2 device to measure hydrogen and methane level ( checking for SIBO etc ) I had to rely on these stomach tests to get further info, as i'm in the UK the Triosmart test which checks for H2S was not available, one of my SIBO tests on AIRE 2 was flatline though which suggested H2S.

I got some pretty strange results from this test, I would be interested actually to compare my results to other people with ME/CFS symptoms / PEM especially if they also have multiple chemical sensitivity and mold hypersensitivity. I have off the scale levels of some really unusual bacterias actually, such as Corynebacterium Canis ( 0.005% ), Clostridium putrefaciens ( 0.031% ). Overall after I sorted through all the advanced results by Genus or Species about 30% of my bacteria types were over 90 percentile so in 'overgrowth' or extremely elevated above the average or normal range. As I understand it this isn't common in ME/CFS or would have been found already, the number that were unusually low was much less, maybe 10% of the total types.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Just fyi I do not have SIBO or any of the other hydrogen or methane symptomology and I haven't had any traces of methane bacterial species for over 12 months:

my hydrogen percentages are low but have been fluctuating a lot, Febuary correlates with very high level of function (very mild in ME terms), recent levels correlate with a lesser level of function (mild):

I am badly bloated a lot of the time, but that isn't really due to gas.

 

[Hip]

I have cured my microscopic colitis with Biomesight testing and various interventions suggested by testing. This convinces me of the obvious - gastros are out to lunch on the issue or microscopic colitis..

That's interesting, would you mind outlining how you were able to cure your microscopic colitis via the info gained from Biomesight testing.

I read that 6% of patients diagnosed with IBS-D actually have microscopic colitis. Since I have IBS-D symptoms, I've always wondered whether I might have MC instead of IBS-D.

I did at one stage try several weeks of Pepto Bismol (bismuth subsalicylate), which I read can treat MC, but to no avail.

 

[tyson oberle]

I am badly bloated a lot of the time, but that isn't really due to gas.

Do you know what is causing the bloating or do you have a suspicion of the cause?

 

[consuegra]

That's interesting, would you mind outlining how you were able to cure your microscopic colitis via the info gained from Biomesight testing.

I read that 6% of patients diagnosed with IBS-D actually have microscopic colitis. Since I have IBS-D symptoms, I've always wondered whether I might have MC instead of IBS-D.

I did at one stage try several weeks of Pepto Bismol (bismuth subsalicylate), which I read can treat MC, but to no avail.

Hip,

I was diagnosed in 2017 via colonoscopy with Lymphocytic microscopic colitis. The gastro guy wanted to put me on Budesonide but I wasn't interested. I went through the Pepto Bismol thing and then the Imodium thing, without much result, except getting heightened tinnitus from the PB. So I switch to a Swedish probiotic Gut Magnifique, which seemed to help a little, and gave me a hint. CBD seemed to help a little also. I stopped gluten and alcohol. Eventually I stumbled on Biomesight and did a test. This led to increasing prebiotics (radishes, asparagus, sun choke, artichoke, jicama) and working to a potential leaky gut with prebiotic substances (GOS, Kiwi, l.glutamine, peptides) and specific rotating probiotics (l. casei, Yakult, Mutaflor) to increase the good guys, Roseburia, Faecalbacterium, Akkermansia, and so forth. In a few months my symptoms reversed and I no longer lived in fear of being caught in a bad situation. I have mentioned this to several gastro docs but they aren't interested.

Regards,
Chris

That's interesting, would you mind outlining how you were able to cure your microscopic colitis via the info gained from Biomesight testing.

I read that 6% of patients diagnosed with IBS-D actually have microscopic colitis. Since I have IBS-D symptoms, I've always wondered whether I might have MC instead of IBS-D.

I did at one stage try several weeks of Pepto Bismol (bismuth subsalicylate), which I read can treat MC, but to no avail.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I bet you have mentioned it to a lot of docs! Shame they are so ignorant to these things, assuming you can tolerate dietary adjustments they can have a powerful effect on species level bacteria. I don't suppose you'd be able to share your biomesight before and after? Using the tracker graph? Would be great to see the changes. Thanks.