Bing (ChatGPT) Getting Worse

[hapl808]

ChatGPT 4 is a big step up from ChatGPT 3.5, even with the problems they've had lately with capacity and such. But the ChatGPT underpinning Bing is getting more and more crippled (hey, just like me!).

Unfortunately, people posted breathless "Hey, I got it to say something weird after two hours of prodding." So Microsoft has been putting guard rails on it. I think they know they've crippled it and are trying to adjust, but this is not easy.

As an example, here's an identical prompt from Bing in Creative Mode from a couple weeks ago and today. The underlying data isn't so different here, but the amount of information seems much less. I've found coding questions are even worse.

What herbs and supplements are most effective against microglial activation or glutamate toxicity?

TWO WEEKS AGO (formatting removed)

That’s an interesting question. Microglial activation and glutamate toxicity are two factors that can contribute to neuroinflammation and neurodegeneration. According to some studies, there are some herbs and supplements that may have protective effects against these processes by modulating the immune response, reducing oxidative stress, and regulating glutamate receptors. However, the evidence is not conclusive and more research is needed to confirm the safety and efficacy of these natural products.

Some examples of herbs and supplements that have been reported to inhibit microglial activation or glutamate toxicity are:

Curcumin: A polyphenol derived from turmeric that has anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, and neuroprotective properties. It can suppress microglial activation by inhibiting NF-κB signaling and cytokine production12.

Resveratrol: A polyphenol found in grapes, red wine, berries, and peanuts that has anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, and neuroprotective effects. It can inhibit microglial activation by modulating NLRP3 inflammasome and SIRT1 pathways12.

Ginkgo biloba: A traditional Chinese herb that has antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and neuroprotective effects. It can inhibit microglial activation by reducing ROS production and cytokine release12.

Green tea polyphenols: A group of compounds found in green tea that have antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and neuroprotective properties. They can inhibit microglial activation by suppressing NF-κB signaling and MAPK pathways12.

Omega-3 fatty acids: Essential fatty acids found in fish oil, flaxseed oil, walnuts, and other sources that have anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, and neuroprotective effects. They can inhibit microglial activation by modulating PPARγ and RXRα receptors12.

N-acetylcysteine: A precursor of glutathione that has antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and neuroprotective effects. It can inhibit glutamate toxicity by increasing glutathione levels and reducing oxidative stress34.

Magnesium: A mineral that is involved in many enzymatic reactions and cellular functions. It can inhibit glutamate toxicity by blocking NMDA receptors and reducing calcium influx34.

Melatonin: A hormone that regulates circadian rhythms and has antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and neuroprotective effects. It can inhibit glutamate toxicity by scavenging free radicals and modulating glutamate receptors34.

These are some of the possible herbs and supplements that may have some benefits against microglial activation or glutamate toxicity. However, they are not a substitute for medical advice or treatment. You should always consult your doctor before taking any herbal or dietary supplements, especially if you have any medical conditions or are taking any medications. Some of these natural products may have side effects or interactions with other drugs or supplements. Also, the quality and purity of these products may vary depending on the source and manufacturer.

I hope this information was helpful to you.

TODAY (formatting removed)

According to one source, some of the supplements that may help combat glutamate excitotoxicity are:

L-Theanine: an amino acid found in green tea that can modulate glutamate receptors and reduce glutamate levels in the brain.

Curcumin: a flavonoid found in turmeric that can inhibit glutamate release and protect neurons from oxidative stress and inflammation.

Resveratrol: a flavanoid found in red grapes that can reduce glutamate-induced neuronal death and improve mitochondrial function.

DHA: an omega-3 fatty acid that can enhance synaptic plasticity and reduce glutamate-mediated excitotoxicity.

Magnesium: a mineral that can block NMDA receptors and prevent calcium influx and neuronal damage.

Ashwagandha: an adaptogenic herb that can modulate GABA and glutamate receptors and reduce stress-induced neurodegeneration.

However, some natural products from herbal and dietary supplements may also have toxic effects due to metabolic activation by hepatic cytochrome P450 or intestinal bacteria234. These products may generate reactive metabolites that bind to cellular macromolecules and cause oxidative stress, inflammation, DNA damage, apoptosis, or necrosis. Some examples of these products are:

Kava: a plant used for anxiety and insomnia that may cause hepatotoxicity due to the formation of reactive quinone methides from kavalactones.

Ephedra: a plant used for weight loss and asthma that may cause cardiovascular toxicity due to the formation of reactive catechols from ephedrine alkaloids.

Ginkgo: a plant used for cognitive enhancement and circulation that may cause bleeding disorders due to the formation of reactive quinones from ginkgolic acids.

Green tea: a plant used for antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects that may cause hepatotoxicity due to the formation of reactive quinones from catechins.

Therefore, it is important to consult with a qualified health professional before using any herbs or supplements, especially if you have any medical conditions or are taking any medications.

Maybe it's just me, but today's answer seems much less helpful and doesn't go into a fraction of the detail of what it did a couple weeks ago.

Anyone else working with Bing, GPT 3.5, GPT 4, etc?

 

[linusbert]

i am not yet on gpt4. i won't apply for beta so i wait until it comes out for normal folks.
bing i will not even try, microsoft is a bad company. they put their poison every where... something also apple recently is doing.... well i know that microsoft inofficially owns openai... but i hope they can get out of the grasp a bit.

can gpt4 finally write code , i do not have to fix 100 times?

 

[hapl808]

can gpt4 finally write code , i do not have to fix 100 times?

Yes, but shorter stuff and you might have to fix it 10 times. However, it's much less likely to make stuff up than 3.5, and often you can have it debug its own stuff. That was usually futile with 3.5. Bing was pretty good at debugging before, now it seems super variable. Good one day, terrible the next. I also hate the Bing interface.

 

[Wishful]

Good one day, terrible the next.

That's the nature of experimentation. You use feedback to fix one problem, and it creates a new unexpected problem. The more reviews, good and bad, the faster it will improve. People pushing the limits will help improve things too.

 

[linusbert]

@hapl808 , what is gpt4 saying about over-, under methylation and methyl trap? gpt3 gives me over ambitious probably inaccurate answers. it said a undermethylation could increase allergies due to to LESS histamin.. not too much. kinda saying that inflamation reactions are controlled by histamin and too less leads to increased inflamation and more potential for allergies.
this sounds like bogus...


also i wonder, when you have your chatgpt sessions, do you listen to:

?


do you use telegram app? i built (well, actually gpt built) a telegram bot interface for connecting openai with telegram. also adding some features like accepting voice messages and text2speech in replies which is really handy when typing isnt working good on bad days.

 

[hapl808]

what is gpt4 saying about over-, under methylation and methyl trap?

Here's the response when I asked it about those things in relation to ME/CFS.

Over-methylation and under-methylation are terms used to describe imbalances in the methylation process, an essential biochemical process that occurs in the body. Methylation involves the transfer of a methyl group (CH3) from one molecule to another, which plays a crucial role in various biological functions such as DNA synthesis, detoxification, gene expression, and neurotransmitter production.

1. Over-methylation: This occurs when there is an excess of methyl groups being transferred in the body, leading to increased levels of certain neurotransmitters, such as serotonin and dopamine. Over-methylation can be caused by genetic factors, excessive intake of methyl donors (e.g., folate, B12, SAMe), or an imbalance in the enzymes involved in the methylation process.
2. Under-methylation: In contrast, under-methylation is characterized by a deficiency in methyl groups, resulting in decreased neurotransmitter production and other biochemical imbalances. Under-methylation can be caused by genetic factors, poor diet, environmental toxins, or a deficiency in essential nutrients required for methylation (e.g., folate, B12, and other B vitamins).
3. Methyl trap: The methyl trap hypothesis suggests that an imbalance in the methylation process, particularly an overabundance of folic acid or a deficiency of B12, can lead to a 'trapping' of methyl groups. This can result in a functional deficiency of active methyl groups, even when overall levels may appear normal.

ME/CFS (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) is a complex, multi-systemic illness characterized by persistent fatigue, cognitive dysfunction, and other symptoms. While the exact cause of ME/CFS is unknown, it is thought that imbalances in methylation may play a role in the development or exacerbation of the condition. Methylation imbalances can lead to increased oxidative stress, neuroinflammation, and immune system dysregulation, all of which have been implicated in ME/CFS.

To control over-methylation and under-methylation, it is important to:

1. Identify the underlying cause: Genetic testing can help identify any genetic mutations or polymorphisms that may be contributing to methylation imbalances.
2. Optimize nutrient intake: Ensuring an adequate intake of essential nutrients, including B vitamins, magnesium, and zinc, can help support proper methylation. It's important to consult a healthcare professional for personalized recommendations.
3. Address any underlying health issues: Addressing any concurrent health conditions, such as infections, inflammation, or hormonal imbalances, can help improve overall methylation balance.
4. Consider supplementation: In some cases, targeted supplementation with methyl donors or cofactors, such as methylfolate, methylcobalamin (B12), or SAMe, may be necessary. It is essential to work with a knowledgeable healthcare professional to ensure the appropriate dosages and avoid further imbalances.
5. Lifestyle modifications: Incorporating stress management techniques, regular exercise, and a balanced diet can also help support overall methylation balance and improve ME/CFS symptoms.

Research is still ongoing to better understand the relationship between methylation and ME/CFS, and the potential benefits of targeted interventions in managing the condition.

 

[linusbert]

thanks! this is bing or gpt4?

its getting more and more clear. the methylation theory might be indeed true... but its actually useless.
basically the recommendation is, or is becoming more and more, "just fix everything (nutritional), have healthy lifestyle, and healthy food, dont have stress".
i had healthy lifestyle, food and no stress before i got sick.
this is actually a joke. there is no clean line anymore. its a individual puzzle which many cannot solve.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

i built (well, actually gpt built) a telegram bot interface for connecting openai with telegram. also adding some features like accepting voice messages and text2speech in replies which is really handy when typing isnt working good on bad days.

Totally intimidating. Wow.

this is actually a joke. there is no clean line anymore. its a individual puzzle which many cannot solve.

Couldnt agree more. this is a nasty, clever little potholed switch-back road, surrounded by blind alleys, enclosed in a labyrinth, encircled by The Great Wall of China.

Good luck figuring it out, oh ye who think you have the answers, eh?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Here's the response when I asked it about those things in relation to ME/CFS.

Thank you for posting this, it's really interesting on several levels ....

 

[Tsukareta]

I did try using it to research my own health issues since I saw people on here were using it that way,
I think its interesting in that seems it can pull information from many different sources and give you the most important takeaways, stuff that might take quite a lot of reading to discern for yourself, so perhaps it can speed up research but I didn't find it super useful for trying to gain knowledge that is on the periphery or cutting edge of general thought on a topic. If for example the cure for a certain disease was already possible to discover through deep research, but not generally accepted or publicised yet, I think ChatGPT would miss that.

 

[hapl808]

I did try using it to research my own health issues since I saw people on here were using it that way,
I think its interesting in that seems it can pull information from many different sources and give you the most important takeaways, stuff that might take quite a lot of reading to discern for yourself, so perhaps it can speed up research but I didn't find it super useful for trying to gain knowledge that is on the periphery or cutting edge of general thought on a topic. If for example the cure for a certain disease was already possible to discover through deep research, but not generally accepted or publicised yet, I think ChatGPT would miss that.

It's good for synthesizing stuff, but it can't cure things that haven't been written about, and its knowledge cuts off a couple years ago I think, so it would miss absolute cutting edge. That said, I think it would catch deep research things. I've asked it about herbs for glutamate toxicity, Buhner protocols, etc - and it seems pretty accurate.

thanks! this is bing or gpt4?

That was GPT 4. I don't think Bing would be nearly as thorough or valuable.

 

[Wishful]

its getting more and more clear. the methylation theory might be indeed true...

Is it? I haven't read anything supporting that. The main reason I've been ignoring it is that I haven't observed any effects from B12 or folate or other nutrients. If methylation was responsible for my symptoms, shouldn't it be affected by such nutritional factors? Shouldn't more people be reporting success from methylation treatments?

 

[linusbert]

Is it? I haven't read anything supporting that. The main reason I've been ignoring it is that I haven't observed any effects from B12 or folate or other nutrients. If methylation was responsible for my symptoms, shouldn't it be affected by such nutritional factors? Shouldn't more people be reporting success from methylation treatments?

yea sure it is. basically the current methylation protocols as they stand are "fix all your deficiencies". its not about just b12 and folat anymore, its just everything.
and what cannot be true about fixing deficiencies.

i've read a lot of reports here that people are having positive effects from supplementation. just not the total healing or remission one might hope.
the methylation protocols in my opinion do not live up to the hype though. i for my example do not get anything beneficial out of it. i used to have positive effects from vitamin D. and vitamin C a bit. but nowadays not much is working.
though i do believe , if there was a magical device which could show the nutritional status of a body in the very moment... and tells what supplements in what dose would be beneficial now... one could treat many diseases and probably even revert cfs.
though this will never happen... and therefore i think its a big individual puzzle which is almost impossible to solve, for many.


there is still the case that a disease might actually not be due to deficiency. or even deficiencies are not present... though i believe the longer the chronic disease , the more will pile up.

and then there is orthomolecular medicine. not just fixing deficiencies but use nutrtiens in high dose for therapeutical use.
its been proven that benfothiamine + alpha lipoic acid helps a lot in case of diabetics and poly neuropathys. just a example.
i'd even say with the right nutrition diabetes can be better treated than with mainstream pharmaceutical things like metformin.

 

[Wishful]

its just everything.

If that were the case, shouldn't there be more reported (and verified) successes from a diet high in eggs or other 'complete nutrient' foods or diets? It shouldn't require Whomever's Precise Protocol of synthetic supplements.

If anyone is claiming that a treatment requires very specific ratios of nutrients ("Folic acid must be 5.321 x B12 +/- .002") and that getting even one of them slightly too high makes it fail, that sounds like trying to find excuses for all the failures. "The protocol works perfectly. Any failures are all your fault for not getting it right." If perfect health depends on such precise ratios of inputs, shouldn't most of the human population be ill most of the time, with a Big Mac or a salad throwing their bodies out of their ideal ratios?

Some people do have disorders due to deficiencies or excesses of nutrients. Some people can probably get extra benefits from supplementing some nutrients. That doesn't mean that all diseases are due to incorrect nutrient intake, or that all diseases can be treated by changing nutrient intake.

 

[linusbert]

Some people do have disorders due to deficiencies or excesses of nutrients. Some people can probably get extra benefits from supplementing some nutrients. That doesn't mean that all diseases are due to incorrect nutrient intake, or that all diseases can be treated by changing nutrient intake.

did i say something else?

 

[Tsukareta]

Nutrient deficiency is one of the first things i wondered about when I started having MCS and food sensitivity like reactions rather than my usual chemical intolerance, but I get the impression there isn't just a blood test that you can get from a run of the mill doctor that will do a broad screen for all essential vitamins e.g zinc selenium magnesium copper. They usually test for vit D, Iron and B12 I think. I found thyroid and cortisol self tests available online, but my blood doesn't seem to flow well enough to do the type of tests where they want a small tube to be filled all the way via a finger prick, I tried one for anti gliadin antibody and I couldn't even get half, i'm often moderately dehydrated because I cant retain water well since a year ago. I've heard about the complexities of measuring true levels of certain vitamins and how blood might not represent it well. I tried raising my vitamin D level to combat any potential MCAS that I guess could be causing my disease progression.

I'll give a little example of something I thought to ask the Chat GPT, its something thats always 'stuck out' as not aligning with the standard set of observations about CFS patients.

Q " could exposure to mycotoxins from mold found in water damaged buildings cause an increase in the ALT marker on a standard liver function test ? "

A " Yes, exposure to mycotoxins from mold found in water-damaged buildings could potentially cause an increase in the ALT (alanine transaminase) marker on a standard liver function test. Mycotoxins are toxic compounds produced by some types of molds, and they can cause liver damage when ingested or inhaled. The liver is responsible for metabolizing mycotoxins, and as a result, increased levels of ALT may be observed in individuals with liver damage or inflammation caused by exposure to mycotoxins. "

Did Chat GPT just make that information up though ? thats what I don't know. I tried fictional character roleplay AI in the past before Chat GPT was released and it often made things up, that sounded convincing on the surface. The website is called character ( dot ) ai thats where I observed this behaviour, I think ChatGPT could work similarly.

 

[linusbert]

Nutrient deficiency is one of the first things i wondered about when I started having MCS and food sensitivity like reactions rather than my usual chemical intolerance, but I get the impression there isn't just a blood test that you can get from a run of the mill doctor that will do a broad screen for all essential vitamins e.g zinc selenium magnesium copper. They usually test for vit D, Iron and B12 I think. I found thyroid and cortisol self tests available online, but my blood doesn't seem to flow well enough to do the type of tests where they want a small tube to be filled all the way via a finger prick, I tried one for anti gliadin antibody and I couldn't even get half, i'm often moderately dehydrated because I cant retain water well since a year ago. I've heard about the complexities of measuring true levels of certain vitamins and how blood might not represent it well. I tried raising my vitamin D level to combat any potential MCAS that I guess could be causing my disease progression.

I'll give a little example of something I thought to ask the Chat GPT, its something thats always 'stuck out' as not aligning with the standard set of observations about CFS patients.

Q " could exposure to mycotoxins from mold found in water damaged buildings cause an increase in the ALT marker on a standard liver function test ? "

A " Yes, exposure to mycotoxins from mold found in water-damaged buildings could potentially cause an increase in the ALT (alanine transaminase) marker on a standard liver function test. Mycotoxins are toxic compounds produced by some types of molds, and they can cause liver damage when ingested or inhaled. The liver is responsible for metabolizing mycotoxins, and as a result, increased levels of ALT may be observed in individuals with liver damage or inflammation caused by exposure to mycotoxins. "

Did Chat GPT just make that information up though ? thats what I don't know. I tried fictional character roleplay AI in the past before Chat GPT was released and it often made things up, that sounded convincing on the surface. The website is called character ( dot ) ai thats where I observed this behaviour, I think ChatGPT could work similarly.

Q: what else could raise the ALT?

A: There are many factors that could raise the ALT (alanine aminotransferase) level in a liver function test. Some common causes of elevated ALT include:

1. Liver diseases: Conditions that cause inflammation or damage to the liver, such as hepatitis (viral, autoimmune, or drug-induced), cirrhosis, or fatty liver disease, can cause elevated ALT levels.
2. Medications and drugs: Certain medications and drugs, such as acetaminophen (Tylenol), antibiotics, antifungal agents, statins, and some herbal supplements, can cause liver damage and elevated ALT levels.
3. Alcohol consumption: Heavy alcohol consumption can cause liver damage and elevated ALT levels.
4. Obesity and metabolic syndrome: Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is a condition where excessive fat accumulates in the liver. NAFLD is often associated with obesity, insulin resistance, and metabolic syndrome, and can cause elevated ALT levels.
5. Infections: Some infections, such as mononucleosis (Epstein-Barr virus), cytomegalovirus, and herpes simplex virus, can cause liver inflammation and elevated ALT levels.
6. Genetic disorders: Certain genetic disorders, such as hemochromatosis, Wilson's disease, and alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency, can cause liver damage and elevated ALT levels.

It is important to note that elevated ALT levels alone do not provide a definitive diagnosis and further evaluation may be required to determine the underlying cause.

so making assumption from ALT seams to be a bit wild, as there are sooo many things which can influence it.

 

[linusbert]

It's good for synthesizing stuff, but it can't cure things that haven't been written about, and its knowledge cuts off a couple years ago I think, so it would miss absolute cutting edge. That said, I think it would catch deep research things. I've asked it about herbs for glutamate toxicity, Buhner protocols, etc - and it seems pretty accurate.



That was GPT 4. I don't think Bing would be nearly as thorough or valuable.

i also got gpt4 now. at first i was blissed but then its getting disappointing.
beginning of my little project, was fine, it did good outline. then i added features.. a bit of refactoring. i begin to code more and more myself because gpt mixes things up. in the end i cant let it do anything because its so lost it cannot edit a single file without mixing it with older revisions, or making up things because it doesnt remember it did code it before.

for coding, how can i code a project with multiple files? i got like 10 files now, it cant code anymore, it forgets the other files. mixes things up its annoying.

i used to create a new session, add all files in one messasge with a introduction what we are doing. that worked. but now i have too many files.

is there a work around for that?

 

[lauluce]

ChatGPT 4 is a big step up from ChatGPT 3.5, even with the problems they've had lately with capacity and such. But the ChatGPT underpinning Bing is getting more and more crippled (hey, just like me!).

Unfortunately, people posted breathless "Hey, I got it to say something weird after two hours of prodding." So Microsoft has been putting guard rails on it. I think they know they've crippled it and are trying to adjust, but this is not easy.

As an example, here's an identical prompt from Bing in Creative Mode from a couple weeks ago and today. The underlying data isn't so different here, but the amount of information seems much less. I've found coding questions are even worse.

What herbs and supplements are most effective against microglial activation or glutamate toxicity?

TWO WEEKS AGO (formatting removed)


TODAY (formatting removed)


Maybe it's just me, but today's answer seems much less helpful and doesn't go into a fraction of the detail of what it did a couple weeks ago.

Anyone else working with Bing, GPT 3.5, GPT 4, etc?

just tell it "please answer my previous question with the greatest level of detail possible". It works for ChatGPT (gpt-3.5)

 

[linusbert]

the last 2 days my chatgpt 4 is getting really bad for coding. it actually is stupid even in small snippets like 30-50 lines. also its crashing all the time.
also my auto ai sms sender is also getting stupid. ignoring directives like "write message in only 160 characters".
someone got the same problems?