BETRAYAL by the BRAIN: Jay Goldstein, MD - Has anyone read???

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
15,810
Likes
32,558
As an aide, I've recently been tinkering with a idea that the pain in ME/CFS might come from infection and inflammation in the dorsal root ganglia (DRG), these little "electrical junction boxes" of the nervous system that exist all along the length of the spine. Some ME/CFS autopsies showed the DRG are inflamed and infected in ME/CFS patients.

The DRG carry sensory and pain information from the limbs and organs to the brain, so my idea is that if the DRG are inflamed, they might create erroneous pain signals, or amplify mild pain signals to become much stronger.

In complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS), the DRG are also involved (and a new treatment for CRPS pain involves surgically implanting an electrical stimulation device that reduces pain by stimulating the DRG).


I am fortunate not to get the pain symptom of ME/CFS, but I do get the heavy limbs (molasses libs) feeling of ME/CFS, which perhaps might also be caused by DRG inflammation. So recently I've been experimenting using far infrared radiation from my infrared heater on my back area, in order to reduce DRG inflammation. Infrared light has anti-inflammatory properties, and far infrared penetrates tissue further than near infrared, and so should reach the DRG, which are located outside the spine and not far beneath the skin.

I've written up my far infrared treatment approach in this post. I just wonder whether using far infrared heat on the spine might be helpful for the ME/CFS pain.
 
Messages
3,323
Likes
4,096
Location
Vermont, school in Western MA
As an aide, I've recently been tinkering with a idea that the pain in ME/CFS might come from infection and inflammation in the dorsal root ganglia (DRG), these little "electrical junction boxes" of the nervous system that exist all along the length of the spine. Some ME/CFS autopsies showed the DRG are inflamed and infected in ME/CFS patients.

The DRG carry sensory and pain information from the limbs and organs to the brain, so my idea is that if the DRG are inflamed, they might create erroneous pain signals, or amplify mild pain signals to become much stronger.

In complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS), the DRG are also involved (and a new treatment for CRPS pain involves surgically implanting an electrical stimulation device that reduces pain by stimulating the DRG).


I am fortunate not to get the pain symptom of ME/CFS, but I do get the heavy limbs (molasses libs) feeling of ME/CFS, which perhaps might also be caused by DRG inflammation. So recently I've been experimenting using far infrared radiation from my infrared heater on my back area, in order to reduce DRG inflammation. Infrared light has anti-inflammatory properties, and far infrared penetrates tissue further than near infrared, and so should reach the DRG, which are located outside the spine and not far beneath the skin.

I've written up my far infrared treatment approach in this post. I just wonder whether using far infrared heat on the spine might be helpful for the ME/CFS pain.
It is interesting. I can hypothesize many causes of the pain. Lactic acidosis could cause muscle burning. But it seems like the autopsies of people with the dorsal ganglion inflammation may have selected some of the patients that were most severe and had most severe pain, both Bc some of them died of ME directly (controversial) and Bc some of them were people that chose to end their life Bc of suffering. That stfuff freaks me out. When I’m really severe flare ups I wonder if enteroviruses are totally fucking up my brain tissue. One can’t really do biopsies of brain tissue though so who knows. I’ve considered oxymatrine but since I haven’t been thoroughly tested for autoimmune diseases like Hashimotos, I was warned off trying it.
The infrared stuff is interesting. I do have some of those devices and could try them. Have heard that there’s a biphasic dose response curve though and one can be made worse by too much
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
15,810
Likes
32,558
The infrared stuff is interesting. I do have some of those devices and could try them. Have heard that there’s a biphasic dose response curve though and one can be made worse by too much
I have not come across that; though much of the infrared medical treatment focuses on near infrared (which interacts with the mitochondria). Whereas at the moment I'm using far infrared. I just place the heater behind my naked back when working on the computer at my desk.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
3,871
Likes
5,928
Location
Ashland, Oregon
these little "electrical junction boxes" of the nervous system that exist all along the length of the spine. Some ME/CFS autopsies showed the DRG are inflamed and infected in ME/CFS patients.
Hey @Hip,

I've done a lot of research into various kinds of energy medicine, and I adopted a technique into my daily routine which I discovered from reading a book by Donna Eden. The technique--which can be self-done or by another person--is called "The Spinal Flush". It involves massaging along the spine in the areas you mention. I've consistently found it to clear my sinuses, along with making me feel better in a number of ways. -- Thought you might be interested...
 
Messages
226
Likes
224
Location
Chicago suburbs
@Hip you don’t happen to have a pdf of any of his books where he explains the theory behind this stuff, do u?
You can get a pdf of Tuning the Brain by searching for "Jay Goldstein" here: www.libgen.io

If you're interested in IV lidocaine, you could try finding a neural therapy practitioner in your area. Neural therapy is a modality that started in Germany about 100 years ago; some people call it "German acupuncture." They inject lidocaine and procaine in certain parts of the body, and one of their techniques is IV lidocaine. I've had a few treatments so far, and I can't say if it will have any permanent positive effects, but I felt really good for a couple hours after my last session.

If you want to read about how it's specifically performed, search for "Manual of Neural Therapy" and "Atlas of Neural Therapy" at www.libgen.io
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,224
Likes
6,147
You can get a pdf of Tuning the Brain by searching for "Jay Goldstein" here: www.libgen.io

If you're interested in IV lidocaine, you could try finding a neural therapy practitioner in your area. Neural therapy is a modality that started in Germany about 100 years ago; some people call it "German acupuncture." They inject lidocaine and procaine in certain parts of the body, and one of their techniques is IV lidocaine. I've had a few treatments so far, and I can't say if it will have any permanent positive effects, but I felt really good for a couple hours after my last session.

If you want to read about how it's specifically performed, search for "Manual of Neural Therapy" and "Atlas of Neural Therapy" at www.libgen.io
If Lidocaine is effective for you, you are likely to get relief from Ambroxol. Like Lidocaine, it's a sodium channel blocker, it works on Dorsal Root Ganglia (@Hip), and it has anti-inflammatory properties (inhibiting IL8).

I use it (I already reported it relieves my pains), together with Inosine (increase my energy) and testosterone (working on strength, tone and pain).

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/pain-gone-with-ambroxol.62011/
...
 

S-VV

Senior Member
Messages
310
Likes
423
A small subset of ME/CFS patients do make substantial improvements on oxytocin, so definitely worth trying (unfortunately it did not work for me). Same goes for the other Goldstein drugs: they may be worth trying, just in case you get benefits that are sustainable.

You can obtain injectable oxytocin without prescription from bodybuilding websites that sell peptides. That's where I got mine.
@Hip
What dose did you use? They usually sell Oxytocin in the milligram range and 1 mg = 600 IU. Goldstein recommended 10 UI's SQ, so a 5mg bottle would last for 300 days (!)
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
15,810
Likes
32,558
I used oxytocin doses in the range of 10 to 30 IU by subcutaneous injection. You can also administer as an intranasal spray, which I also tried.

Dr Jay Goldstein used doses of 5 to 10 IU by intramuscular injection. On pages 157-158 of his book Betrayal by the Brain, Goldstein says:
Approximately one-fifth of my patients have a good response to intramuscular oxytocin
There may be an inverted U-shaped dose-response curve; some patients do well on 5 units, but become agitated and have some return of symptoms on 10 units. Perhaps this effect should be expected, since oxytocin is intimately involved in the stress response.

1 mg of synthetic oxytocin corresponds to 500 IU, according to this comment. I bought a tiny bottle of 2 mg of oxytocin, so my bottle would contain 1000 IU in total.
 
Last edited:
Messages
9
Likes
9
I was a patient of Dr. Goldstein in 1998-1999. I tried at least two dozen pharmaceuticals he prescribed. My symptoms resolved completely for 6 weeks on Nimodipine but I developed a tolerance and it stopped working. A few other drugs resolved or reduced symptoms for as long as a week but they all stopped working.
 

sflorence

Senior Member
Messages
134
Likes
51
I was a patient of Dr. Goldstein in 1998-1999. I tried at least two dozen pharmaceuticals he prescribed. My symptoms resolved completely for 6 weeks on Nimodipine but I developed a tolerance and it stopped working. A few other drugs resolved or reduced symptoms for as long as a week but they all stopped working.

Did you ever try inositol to "reverse" the tolerance, he suggested that could fix things