Beta Endorphin Deficiency - The Elephant in the Room

[xks201]

Tramadol is a weak substitute. I wouldn't say it is nearly as potent as say vicodin or suboxone. It did nothing for me but sedate me.

 

[heapsreal]

Tramadol is a weak substitute. I wouldn't say it is nearly as potent as say vicodin or suboxone. It did nothing for me but sedate me.

I suppose its an individual thing. I use tramadol for chronic back issues( severe facet joint arthritis) and compared to the morphine tablets i have tried in the past, tramadol was alot more effective for pain and didnt make me lethargic, where i found tramadol gave me an energy boost.

 

[xks201]

Morphine is on the opposite side of the spectrum. It is a potent opiate. And it is quite tranquilizing in my experience. I'd say vicodin or suboxone probably are closer to beta endorphin in terms of subjective effects felt.

 

[heapsreal]

Morphine is on the opposite side of the spectrum. It is a potent opiate. And it is quite tranquilizing in my experience. I'd say vicodin or suboxone probably are closer to beta endorphin in terms of subjective effects felt.

Doesnt make sense, hydrocodone in vicodin is metabolised into morphine by the liver. Many of these types of drugs are synthetic or semi-synthetic versions of morphine. I dont understand what u mean by spectrum in relationship to morphine being on the opposite side. To me the opposite side of morphine would be something like narcan which reverses the effects of narcotics?

Many of these types of narcotics depend on how the individuals liver metabolises them into morphine, some metabolise them better then others.

 

[August59]

If your ADH and fludrocortisone and cortisl signaling is in tact then the circulatory stress of added vasodilation shouldn't be an issue. I've taken agmatine with cialis in an attempt to dilate blood vessels and did not experience this stress. The opiate vasodilation effect is weak compared to that in my opinion.

I've used agmatine before and had either no response and at times a favorable response. At the time I took it, I could find only one supplier that distributed pure agmatine in a powder form.

What has been your experience with it?

I've tried low dose memantine with overall good results in relation to brain fog.

 

[August59]

Doesnt make sense, hydrocodone in vicodin is metabolised into morphine by the liver. Many of these types of drugs are synthetic or semi-synthetic versions of morphine. I dont understand what u mean by spectrum in relationship to morphine being on the opposite side. To me the opposite side of morphine would be something like narcan which reverses the effects of narcotics?

Many of these types of narcotics depend on how the individuals liver metabolises them into morphine, some metabolise them better then others.

Don't know if this means anything, but morphine doesn't become a pain relieving substance until it makes it second pass through the liver. Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, Oxymorphone and Hydromorphone induce analgesic effects on their first pass.

 

[Tammy]

Dr Bell has written about a patient who had improved pots/oi symptoms with codeine, at first he was worried about addiction but her dose never changed for years, generally if one gets addicted than the dosage slowly goes up but not with this patient. i think dr bell believed that she was probably replacing her on endorphins?? I had a quick google search but couldnt find it?? I dont think this treatment was for everyone though.

My pots/ OI is definitely improved with vicodin...........and I also am one that has not needed to
change my dose for years. I stayed away from opiates for years because of the addiction potential but I am here to say that this is one of the few things that really helps me in more ways than one. This might be a dumb question but can you get just pure codeine in a prescription without the added Tylenol?

 

[heapsreal]

Don't know if this means anything, but morphine doesn't become a pain relieving substance until it makes it second pass through the liver. Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, Oxymorphone and Hydromorphone induce analgesic effects on their first pass.

I think thats why oral morphine isnt used that much but when used in injection then it works straight away without having to go through the liver to be metabolized. Also i think when morphine is used orally then much larger doses are used to get an effect versus when its injected.

 

[Tammy]

Another thing I want to mention about the Vicodin that seems kind of odd...............sometimes it gives me energy (not an overstimulation) and at other times it relaxes me enough where I can get a nice nap............almost like it's balancing my nervous system..... Also......definitely improves my mood.

 

[heapsreal]

For me sometimes brain fog is a low grade headache, so taking something for headaches can help with the brain fog occassionally.

 

[August59]

For me sometimes brain fog is a low grade headache, so taking something for headaches can help with the brain fog occassionally.

True, True - The best thing I have found for headache is Fiorcet. It's cheap and you can by it online pretty easily. You just can't take it for a week and then quit cause you will get a rebound headache

 

[xks201]

Agmatine is hit or miss.

Does the vicodin eliminate your pots?

 

[notshy46]

I like it!!! Thanks xks201, and thanks for the link. This is right in light with where I've been for about a year now. Something of great importance going on with this issue and it does need immediate attention. After back surgery 15 years ago, I had experienced me/cfs symptom relief with opioids, but I just wrote it off as coincidence. Now again this time having to take the drugs and experiencing the same thing has put me on a path of searching for the answer. I am looking for something non narcotic that would have the same effect. Looking at things like this with pituitary or endorphin deficiency should open those doors.

I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of having a "pre-disease" beta endorphin deficiency. I didn't seem to lack any of those kinds of stress or pain relief hormones because I was on top of the world with both mental and physical health for decades before disease onset. But I certainly do believe that to be an issue now. Looking at my experience, it does seem the deficiency is being fueled by something acquired (ie, infection) rather than being pre-existing. Whatever it is, the response to these drugs is quite profound and should attract much attention from the researchers

It is very intriguing as to why some of our own researchers have not latched onto this since it does seem to be quite significant. I think the reason it hasn't is because they just haven't had much reporting on this from the patients. Sure seems new to me. I hadn't met anyone reporting this until recently.

Yep, and the LDN makes me really sick......probably worse offender I've ever experienced.

It isn't helping me either. I am sleeping now on it at night but still exhausted during the day too. Not sure what to make of it.

 

[dannybex]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12131069

I'm coming to the conclusion that yeah if food allergies, hormones, and infections are coming back good then it might be time to consider the body's deficiency in mounting a stress response (which includes beta endorphin production).

My pituitary produces no hormones. Yet, I have replaced all of the hormones I was told I needed to replace. Little did I realize that the primary endorphin is indeed made in the pituitary.

@ahmo has found benefits from pituitary extracts.

 

[dannybex]

Also, this study says that opiates lower testosterone (acutely) in males:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6247215

 

[leelaplay]

It's no wonder most of us started out depressed and unable to withstand stress before completely breaking down.

These assertions are contrary to what I know of the research. I know of no basis to support either statement.