Best Meds for Deep Sleep

[Mary]

Have you tried niacin? Plain regular niacin, not niacinamide and not flush-free niacin. It stimulates or activates the GABA receptors in the brain so it potentiates the effects of l-theanine, and just helps with sleep all by itself. I take 250 mg. niacin after dinner (with other supps) and, then 2 hours before bed take 200 mg. l-theanine. 100 mg. 5-htp, 600 mg. magnesium glycinate and calcium, and I'm generally nodding off by 10:00 p.m. I usually wake up about 1:30 a.m., take 100 mg. l-theanine, 125 mg. niacin and 1 mg. lorazepam (yeah, I know, a benzo, but I don't increase the dose), and generally am back to sleep within an hour, and sleep soundly the rest of the night.

Adding in the niacin to this cocktail really made a difference. I don't remember how I stumbled across the info that it helped with sleep, but it does. You can't depend on any doctor to help you get a good night's sleep without a pharma drugs They don't know what causes good sleep.

I was taking niacin twice a day, after breakfast and after dinner, and after several weeks realized it was making me tired (more tired) in the morning. So it really worked only I didn't need its effect in the morning.

If I could exercise, I think I could do away with the lorazepam.

One more thing - there's a technique called "faster eft" - it sounds a little strange, but check it out, there are a lot of youtube videos and I've used the technique a few times to help with sleep, telling myself it's okay for my brain to calm down etc. It's very interesting - you can use it for all sorts of things.

 

[Martial]

Definitely do not take the benzos given your history and issues of withdrawal. I think out of many great posts Adreno pointed out some great options that are not benzo class drugs in nature. Unless I am getting the pharm names mixed up.

 

[acrosstheveil]

yes, I have tried niacin. It helps some but doesn't keep me asleep. Remeron seemed to help a lot but it would make me so tired into the next day. I only plan on using the temazepam once a week. for now I am rotating sleep meds like hydroxyzine, remeron, restoril. Need to order some more melatonin when I get more money.

 

[invisiblejungle]

Baclofen is a a GABA-B agonist which is used as a muscle relaxant, but it also causes drowsiness and can improve sleep. I occasionally take 20 mg if I'm having a particularly bad night.

Tiagabine is a GABA reuptake inhibitor, which has shown to increase deep sleep in studies. I have't tried it, but it's on my list of things to try.

 

[halcyon]

Speaking of niacin, has anyone here tried picamilon? Apparently it's niacin bound to GABA and it's able to carry the GABA past the BBB.

 

[invisiblejungle]

Speaking of niacin, has anyone here tried picamilon? Apparently it's niacin bound to GABA and it's able to carry the GABA past the BBB.

Although picamilon is GABA bound to niacin, it's only a theory that it simply carries GABA past the BBB and "drops it off." The only way to prove it would be to give it to animals, kill them, cut open their brains, and measure the GABA levels.

Picamilon is a new molecule, since GABA-niacin doesn't exist in nature. It does have somewhat of a relaxing effect, similar to other GABAergics like benzos and baclofen, but it's also sort of stimulating. It gives me insomnia if I take it towards the end of the day, and from reading other people's experiences online, I'm not the only one.

 

[acrosstheveil]

i have read a lot about picamilon. very mixed revews and most say it is actually somewhat stimulating. i've stopped the gabapentin and the temazepam. had panic attack for the first time in four years next day after taking them last couple of nights.

 

[Sherpa]

so what other options do I have for inducing deep sleep?

For cheap and available, I would recommend Soma (carisoprodol). 350 - 700mg has never failed to get me a refreshing nights sleep even when flared up.

Best option for deep sleep is Xyrem (GHB). Very potent and always effective. Used to be an OTC natural supplement sold at healthfood stores, got turned into a $500 per month FDA-regulated drug because of politics.

 

[acrosstheveil]

thanks for all the suggestions. I think i'm going to permanently part ways with all these drugs that affect gaba. I tend to get severe withdrawal effects from those. right now, i'm rotating benadryl, hydroxyzine, mirtazapine, lithium orotate, and melatonin.

 

[Tired of being sick]

Amitriptyline 150mg 4-5 hours before bedtime(because it takes that long to hit me)when it hits me, I basically turn into an instant zombie meaning it is hard for me to function enough to make it to my bed.So I've learned to go to bed at least 3 hours or less.I watch TV until I become comatose.I then turn my bi-pap
on, put mask on,and fall asleep almost instantly.
Keep in mind until I was put on the 150mg max dose(may 1st of this year) I was waking up every 2 hours in pain like clock work.

I now reach all stages of sleep

This was thought by me to be impossible before the Max dose of Amitriptyline..

 

[heapsreal]

thanks for all the suggestions. I think i'm going to permanently part ways with all these drugs that affect gaba. I tend to get severe withdrawal effects from those. right now, i'm rotating benadryl, hydroxyzine, mirtazapine, lithium orotate, and melatonin.

Thats good, keep rotating them to help avoid tolerance. Sometimes it helps to use a combo but from2 different drug classes eg melatonin with an antihistamine?

I have found high doses of tryptophan helpful, 3000-4000mg before bed and away from any protein food.

The herb yucca has helped improve my sleep, although on its own its not sedating, good to take breaks from it too every few days, could be something you run along side your other sleep stuff.

There other antihistamines you might find helpful like doxylamine, ketotifen. Also kava is a good herb for sleep but look at the dosage of kavalactones as it needs to be atleast 200mg of kavalactones to help with sleep?

Wise not to hammer one drug and dosages increased as eventually it will stop working then you are left with the issue of having to withdraw from it.

 

[Insomniac]

I've had lifelong problems with delayed phase sleep disorder and I've gotten dramatic results, over the last month, using low dose melatonin.

I've tried melatonin numerous times over the years but it wasn't until trying low doses that it finally started working for me.

I use 250-300mcg of the liquid form.

I take 1mg melatonin and it does not help much.
What brand of 250-300mcg melatonin do you take?
maybe I will try the same thing.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

I take 1mg melatonin and it does not help much.

I have no luck with regular melatonin - it has to be sublingual melatonin for me like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Source-Naturals-Melatonin-Peppermint-Tablets/dp/B00020I6YK

Source Naturals has sublingual doses of 1mg and 2.5mg. These days I need to take one to one-and-one half of the 2.5mg tablets.

 

[JPV]

I take 1mg melatonin and it does not help much.
What brand of 250-300mcg melatonin do you take?
maybe I will try the same thing.

I use Natrol Liquid Melatonin as it's easier to control the dosage. However, the low dose may or may not work for your condition. I specifically suffer from a delayed sleep phase disorder, which basically means my body is on a 25-26 hour clock.

The 3mg tablets that I initially tried didn't work for me. I didn't see any positive results until I tried a lower dose of about 300mcg, that's 1/3rd mg. Before buying more supplements, you might want to try taking what you already have and just cut it in half or into quarters first.

This chart below has recommendations for different conditions. It specifically cites 300mcg as the proper dosage for delayed sleep phase disorder. Other conditions have recommendations for anywhere from 1 to 10mgs. You can read up more on the subject at the link below...

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sleep-disorders/role-melatonin-circadian-rhythm-sleep-wake-cycle

A couple of posters on Mark's Daily Apple talk about finding it effective to front load with higher dosages and then titrate downward to a lowest one needed. Search for posts by "Frank B" and "Rob" and don't be put off by the title of the article...

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/before-you-close-your-eyes-make-sure-theyre-open

One of them mentioned that those that find relief, with low dose Melatonin, may find that it stops working for them after a period of time. They say to take a break for 2-3 days and it should start working again.

I should also mention that I haven't been remembering my dreams very well for the last 10-15 years. The low dose Melatonin has fixed that, leading me to believe that I'm getting deeper, more restorative sleep. I also seem to feel better when I go to sleep earlier, between 10-12 o'clock. They say that the body does the most healing between 10pm-2am.

I also try to turn the lights down around 7-8pm and use an app called Flux, on my laptop, that turns the screen progressively more orange at night. Apparently blue light interferes with Melatonin production.

This experience has lead me down the path to thinking that there must be an issue with my Pineal Gland, which is the organ responsible for producing Melatonin. Fixing the Pineal Gland is something that I am currently working on investigating. Fluoride and Bromide seem to be the most commonly mentioned suspects that harm the Pineal Gland. Much of the information regarding detox of the Pineal Gland seems like a bunch of pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo, so reliable information is hard to come by. My guess is that the Pineal Gland may be another victim of the Methylation and detox impairment that many of us seem to suffer from.

 

[acrosstheveil]

Thats good, keep rotating them to help avoid tolerance. Sometimes it helps to use a combo but from2 different drug classes eg melatonin with an antihistamine?

I have found high doses of tryptophan helpful, 3000-4000mg before bed and away from any protein food.

The herb yucca has helped improve my sleep, although on its own its not sedating, good to take breaks from it too every few days, could be something you run along side your other sleep stuff.

There other antihistamines you might find helpful like doxylamine, ketotifen. Also kava is a good herb for sleep but look at the dosage of kavalactones as it needs to be atleast 200mg of kavalactones to help with sleep?

Wise not to hammer one drug and dosages increased as eventually it will stop working then you are left with the issue of having to withdraw from it.

i've wanted to try ketotifen but my doctor is unable to find it in his prescribing book so he says he can't prescribe it. maybe I will see if he has ever used any compounding pharmacies. do most compounding pharmacies stock ketotifen or just a few?

 

[heapsreal]

i just buy it online.

 

[acrosstheveil]

where can you buy it online? pm me if that is against the rules

 

[JalapenoLuv]

None of the meds my MD initially put me on for deep sleep worked.

 

[Tired of being sick]

Referring to post#30


I will add to my experience with Amitriptyline..

I have fell asleep a couple of times. Before I could put my bi-pap n mask on,waking up hours later.Lol

I have fell asleep more than once,before I could finish a cough drop with bi-pap n mask on.Then waking up a little while later choking/gasping for air due to said cough drop stuck in my airway..Lol

I also have awakened with my *mask still strapped!* laying on bed with machine running full tilt, with no recollection whatsoever how this happened. With a swollen uvula so severe that if I coughed the uvula would lay on my tongue until I would swallow.Uh Oh!
Now this one shook my foundation a little(little afraid to go back to sleep)

*(It is nearly impossible for me to take mask off my face without unstrapping it while conscious let alone unconscious. )*

This is my most recent sleep study hitting all cycles of sleep or normal which is a 1st.
Total recording time 7:48hrs
Total sleep time 5:35hrs
Stage 1= 14 Min.or 4%
Stage 2= 219 Min or 65%
Stage 3&4=47 Min or 14%
REM= 54 Min or16%

I'm a 48 YO M
What is the ideal amount of sleep time/% spent in each stage of sleep,by age?



Keep in mind I still feel like a truck hit me upon awakening.My guess is too little too late..
Had sleep apnea/sleep cycle disturbance my whole life,"diagnosed myself with apnea in 2006" Otherwise I would still be undiagnosed, I'm certain of this.
How do I know this? everyone of my diagnoses below in my signature,,, I diagnosed myself.Then,I had to fight many upon many, PCP/"specialty"doctors tooth and nail in order to get official diagnoses except for my no shit Dick Tracy, "easily visible" chronic neck&back pain!of broken vertebrae and sequestered disc upon arthritis, bulging discs,reverse lordosis just to name a few of my many spinal horrid problems..
So poor "at best' managed spinal causing pain is a major factor in my sleep quality.
Had a morphine pain pump trial that "failed" to touch ANY of my neck and back pain.

 

[acrosstheveil]

None of the meds my MD initially put me on for deep sleep worked.

did you ever find something that worked?