BBC Radio 4: Children with ME

Barry53

Senior Member
Messages
2,391
Location
UK
Do we actually harass them then? I assume they mean lots of emails. Do PwME deluge the BBC and other media bodies with more correspondence than other groups of grumpy people?

This is a genuine question, I'm wondering whether we have a reputation for harassment or if we actually do harass with emails and complaints.
I think we just have to try and be what I'm crap at - patient. And trust JE here. Could indulge in all sorts of speculation but at this point in time probably not much point. I now have faith the BBC might well do a decent job, and to do that they will be having to prod some pretty dark places and may take some time to fully sort. I'm happy to just let them get on with it.

Very possible your questions may be answered by the programme itself in due course. In fact I hope so.
 

Barry53

Senior Member
Messages
2,391
Location
UK
Because, presumably, that situation is, and can be represented, in a far more black and white fashion - Assad either attacked, or not, civilians with chemical weapons. The situation with ME is a much more confused one, and much more entrenched. Comparing dissimilar situations and then attempting to draw a correlation between the two is, again, being unfair.

But if you believe it can be done, perhaps you could explain what a knock-out blow against PACE and/or the BPS doctrine might "look" like because it's beyond my imagination to think of something that convinces all the authorities around the world, in one go, that ME is not psychological, that it deserves immediate and massive research funding, that GET and CBT aren't treatments, that BPS theories are lunacy etc. I'll think you'll agree that is a much more complex job, rather than answering "did Dictator X use chemical weapons on his own people, yes or no?" and providing proof.
Even so, as well as being a pragmatist I'm also an optimist. I think this next year could bring real change for the better. Sort of a D-Day, where the tide turns even though still a long way to go.
 

Jonathan Edwards

"Gibberish"
Messages
5,256
I've still not found time to listen to this, but was chatting with someone else who said that they thought it was really good for a BBC programme on ME, but really disappointing if one was expecting a campaigning piece that would blow the lid off the PACE scandal. Expectations will matter when judging something like this.

It's not long ago than some people were expecting this to be a Science Media Centre style-stitch up, and it sounds like it certainly wasn't that.

This programme was not as far as I know attempting do address PACE. But that does not mean the BBC has forgotten about it.
 

AndyPR

Senior Member
Messages
2,516
Location
Guiding the lifeboats to safer waters.
Even so, as well as being a pragmatist I'm also an optimist. I think this next year could bring real change for the better. Sort of a D-Day, where the tide turns even though still a long way to go.
Oh, absolutely. To be extra clear, I do think the tide is turning on our favour - but that is down to lots of individual things, not just one giant haymaker of a blow, and this programme has been another brick taken out of the PACE/BPS/GET/CBT wall.
 

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
One thing to keep in mind is that we as patient community had several years to inform ourselves, debate, form opinions. It's impossible for a journalist to do the same in a few weeks. He has to be careful to not report false information. The best chance we have is to give them time and encourage them to continue investigating this issue. Over time he will grow more confident. Hopefully.

From the outside, the first reaction to PACE trial criticism could very well be disbelief and skepticism. Then over time they see it's really this bad and worse.
 

Barry53

Senior Member
Messages
2,391
Location
UK
That sounds awfully like the Wessely School insinuating that harassment of them leads to fewer people wanting to study the disease, which is both troubling and wrong. As we know the more noise pwme have made over the last few years the more decent researchers have come to the fold. Is nobody ever to be held to account?
I'm sure that there all sorts of forces/moves afoot within the SMC/BBC trying to block a programme that will screw SW and co, and they will take any chance to scare off fence sitters in their own camp. I strongly suspect there are a group of really professional investigative journalists trying to run with this, but others for sure trying to stop them - who will for sure point to anything to try and achieve that. If these journalists are of the calibre of the BBC was once a household name for, then let's please let them get on with it. In all our best interests. And I think it's bl**dy unfair to accuse CS of SWism.
 

Barry53

Senior Member
Messages
2,391
Location
UK
I was just pointing out that if you criticise a health journalist who has tried his/her best to try and do something useful for people with ME/CFS, don't be surprised if they then decide to move on to another health condition where they feel they will be appreciated by the patient community for what they are doing….

CS
Hopefully these journalists will be savvy enough to see that amongst all the pain and hurt of 30 odd years, there is already evidence of real appreciation if they strive to expose the truth about ME, and how pwme have been treated. Oh, and by the way - there is a HUGE story there for the asking if they want it.
 

Snowdrop

Rebel without a biscuit
Messages
2,933
If the ME community has been unfairly portrayed as being a bunch of mentally ill aggressive nutters who harass anybody involved with the subject, then rage is the worst possible response as it just plays into that image. It's entirely counterproductive.

On that note:

You are an ordinary person going about your ordinary business walking along the street. A van races up beside you. Two men in white coats come up to you, grab you and insist that you are unwell and for your own good you should go with them. They insist they know what's best for you. One is about to shot you up with some drug, you don't even know what it is. . .

What do you do?
 

Molly98

Senior Member
Messages
576
I do think it is important that this is a safe place we can air our views on here as a community even where we disagree. I think it is important that we can critically analyse the file on 4 programme as we do with virtually everything else ME related on PR and we should not have to censor this to please journalists or researchers or charities. Hell, we can hardly meet down the pub and have these discussions can we?. To me it is healthy and vital.

I don't think anything that has been said on here is rude, abusive or derogatory to the journalist at all and for someone who produces work for the public domain, I would have thought people having differing and sometimes critical opinions on programmes he is involved goes hand in hand with what he does.

If he had come out passionately fighting for us as a community determined to expose this I would be very grateful, but I did not get this impression, he may well feel like this privately ( I really hope he does) and he had to temper it, he may have had constraints from powers above, I don't know, so I feel neither grateful or ungrateful.

That to me is very different from making a complaint to the BBC for bias or unfair coverage. I certainly don't feel the need to make such a complaint regarding this programme, I did when St Esther Crawley was interviewed last year. I don't feel it was unfair or biased, I would have just have liked it to be more honest and hard hitting and exposing the myths and lies and really the scandal behind how we have been treated.

Perhaps my expectations were to high, are too high, I do have expectation and hope that what is essentially a terrible injustice will be exposed and uncovered and those responsible will face difficult questions and be held accountable.

Time and time again Wessely and Crawley and White and co get off the hook and act with impunity as if they were untouchable, perhaps I was hoping this would begin to change with the BBC interviewing the likes of Nigel, getting information from Tymes Trust and interviewing Ron Davis and Co and going to invest in ME conference.

Perhaps I just expected with such excellent resources and information to draw on it would have been more informative and hard hitting. I do recognise the time limits thought with such a programme.

At the end of the day, this programme did nothing to ease my sense of injustice, rage or grief I feel as an ME sufferer individually and for the community as a whole.
It didn't worsen it, like Crawley's interview did, but it did not ease it.

Will it make a difference? I don't know. Will it provoke debate outside ME circles? I don't know.
I personally feel the BBC Scotland programmes have had more impact and were more positive for us, and I also wrote and thanked Kay Adams.:)

I am sure there will be many who do write and thank the BBC and journalist, just not me this time, I shall wait and see what else they produce.
 

Barry53

Senior Member
Messages
2,391
Location
UK
What on earth does everyone expect here?! Effectively into a 30 year war and now expecting a single 40 min programme to suddenly sort it all? And knit picking about statements such as "the only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain" etc etc. Give the guy a break for goodness sake. If this goes well there will be all sort of programmes, each exposing different aspects.
 

Barry53

Senior Member
Messages
2,391
Location
UK
I do think it is important that this is a safe place we can air our views on here as a community even where we disagree. I think it is important that we can critically analyse the file on 4 programme as we do with virtually everything else ME related on PR and we should not have to censor this to please journalists or researchers or charities. Hell, we can hardly meet down the pub and have these discussions can we?. To me it is healthy and vital.

I don't think anything that has been said on here is rude, abusive or derogatory to the journalist at all and for someone who produces work for the public domain, I would have thought people having differing and sometimes critical opinions on programmes he is involved goes hand in hand with what he does.

If he had come out passionately fighting for us as a community determined to expose this I would be very grateful, but I did not get this impression, he may well feel like this privately ( I really hope he does) and he had to temper it, he may have had constraints from powers above, I don't know, so I feel neither grateful or ungrateful.

That to me is very different from making a complaint to the BBC for bias or unfair coverage. I certainly don't feel the need to make such a complaint regarding this programme, I did when St Esther Crawley was interviewed last year. I don't feel it was unfair or biased, I would have just have liked it to be more honest and hard hitting and exposing the myths and lies and really the scandal behind how we have been treated.

Perhaps my expectations were to high, are too high, I do have expectation and hope that what is essentially a terrible injustice will be exposed and uncovered and those responsible will face difficult questions and be held accountable.

Time and time again Wessely and Crawley and White and co get off the hook and act with impunity as if they were untouchable, perhaps I was hoping this would begin to change with the BBC interviewing the likes of Nigel, getting information from Tymes Trust and interviewing Ron Davis and Co and going to invest in ME conference.

Perhaps I just expected with such excellent resources and information to draw on it would have been more informative and hard hitting. I do recognise the time limits thought with such a programme.

At the end of the day, this programme did nothing to ease my sense of injustice, rage or grief I feel as an ME sufferer individually and for the community as a whole.
It didn't worsen it, like Crawley's interview did, but it did not ease it.

Will it make a difference? I don't know. Will it provoke debate outside ME circles? I don't know.
I personally feel the BBC Scotland programmes have had more impact and were more positive for us, and I also wrote and thanked Kay Adams.:)

I am sure there will be many who do write and thank the BBC and journalist, just not me this time, I shall wait and see what else they produce.
Sorry no trimming of comment but using iPhone4 at moment which is a bit of a struggle.

I think it is crucial to understand that good investigative journalism is NOT advocacy for any particular cause! It is about exposing truths and lies and letting that speak for itself. If they do that for ME then pwme win hands down, and the BPS brigade will be totally screwed.
 

Demepivo

Dolores Abernathy
Messages
411
Next thing you'll tell me with an air of superiority that my disagreement confirms the correctness of the statements with which I disagree.

There aren't always hidden emotional issues behind every human behaviour that one person finds inappropriate.

No, I won't. I'll wish you a good evening & be on my way. :)
 
Back