so, xmrv, i guess the point i was thinking of yesterday is that, i think i would not have injured my back at work in the first place, nor have developed so many problems after, had i been able to use the proper core postural support - more an issue of endurance and of coordination of proper motor patterns. i definitely find now, that te back feels stronger and less painfu, with less slipping and grinding, when i am at my least exhausted point of the day. and if in severe crash, there is almost no ability to activate what i know to be the propr stabiling muscles, so that even moving over in bed causes things to shift wrong and go int spasm, forget when i get up or try to do anything that involves any force.sorry phone not right and really exhausted after dental exam today. so sorry. just wanted to replly in case i get sidetracked.