B12 injections or B12 transdermal spray?

[Hd-x]

I wouldnt bother with expensive oils, transdermal or pills, B12 injections are pretty cheap, easy to self administer and increase yours B12 levels for sure. I tried B12 injections in past, my B12 blood levels where after several injections a lot above any "B12 stock levels", but still no effect (just some "acne")
B12 may work for some ppl., for some ppl. it will not do anything.

 

[SmokinJoeFraz93]

I’ve been administering the B12 oil that I bought from Greg for just over a month now, but don’t feel any improvement. Would it be worth trying injections?

Cheers.

 

[gettinbetter]

I’ve been administering the B12 oil that I bought from Greg for just over a month now, but don’t feel any improvement. Would it be worth trying injections?

Cheers.

Gregs Hydroxy made me sleepy it did absorb well though injections work better for me not sure why

 

[SmokinJoeFraz93]

Gregs Hydroxy made me sleepy it did absorb well though injections work better for me not sure why

It’s strange how it works differently for everyone. I haven’t had a positive or negative experience. It just hasn’t worked. Would you say it’s worth trying injections?

 

[gettinbetter]

May I ask where you got the hydroxy injections?

Chemist Direct in Australia I found it to be of high quality
https://www.chemistdirect.com.au/

 

[Remi]

I'm doing the Pat Kornic protocol: daily or alternative days 1 ml injection of hydroxo. Cofactors are folic acid, b complex and iron. I tested too high on homocysteine, which means folate, b12 or b6 are deficient. After suppletion, b6 and folate are now optimal and homocysteine is still too high, so it has to be b12. Ferritin was low and is still not optimal, but as b12 injections take iron, this is normal. I did increase my iron dose.

It can take years to recover from b12 deficiency, some only notice improvement after a year on the protocol. I don't notice anything yet after 9 months, but my thyroid levels are also still off. I will continue until all levels have been optimal for a while, then evaluate.

Injecting subcutaneously or intramusculair can make a difference. Also, some do better on cyano, though not clear why.

 

[SmokinJoeFraz93]

I'm doing the Pat Kornic protocol:

Hey, I am aware of Pat’s protocol because I joined the Facebook group on behalf for my mum who has PA. I just don’t know if it’s worth trying because the oil I bought his high quality and 80% absorbed, and that’s in the form of Hydroxo & Methyl. I take that daily.

 

[Remi]

I don't know what Pat says about the oil. It sounds just as good, but the co factors are different. Did you test MMA, homocysteine?

 

[SmokinJoeFraz93]

Did you test MMA, homocysteine?

I haven’t tested anything related to B12, however I am taking the co factors for the oil I’m taking. Maybe It just doesn’t work for me. I’ll look into getting injections.

Cheers.

 

[Remi]

I nearly gave up after 9 months no effect. Then I retested homocysteine and ferritin and they were both still abnormal or suboptimal. I did go from SC to IM injections after 6 months. It's said SC may do nothing and you have to start over with IM. Same for hydroxo vs the other types. Homocysteine did become lower, so I hope I'm on the right track.

 

[SmokinJoeFraz93]

so I hope I'm on the right track.

I hope you are too! Thanks for your input

 

[Hip]

I’ve been administering the B12 oil that I bought from Greg for just over a month now, but don’t feel any improvement. Would it be worth trying injections?

My understanding is the B12 oils are as good as injections; it may be worth trying injections, but if the oils don't help, injections may not either.

Are you applying the oils to dry skin (ie, not wet skin after a shower or bath)? The oils do not penetrate wet skin well.

 

[Likaloha]

I have been doing the injections for five or so years.. Do not really know if it helps but it keeps my B12 levels at an acceptable level for a 'normal' person.

 

[Remi]

My understanding is the B12 oils are as good as injections; it may be worth trying injections, but if the oils don't help, injections may not either.

Are you applying the oils to dry skin (ie, not wet skin after a shower or bath)? The oils do not penetrate wet skin well.

Is applying oil similar to injecting subcutaneously? Some only improve with intramuscular injections. That would leave that option open.

 

[Hip]

Is applying oil similar to injecting subcutaneously? Some only improve with intramuscular injections. That would leave that option open.

According to Greg, an estimated 80% of the B12 oil is absorbed, and that actually gives you a dose higher than most injections.

I've never come across the notion that intramuscular injections of B12 would be more effective than subcutaneous injections. Can you remember where you saw that?

 

[Galixie]

Why cyanocobalamin?
It' s manmade and may be less effective?

All B12 is man made. The only natural B12 is found in meat and dairy products. Before man made B12 was created, Pernicious Anemia patients were kept alive by eating half a pound of mostly raw liver per day.

Cyanocobalamin is the most shelf stable of the versions of B12. It doesn't need refrigeration. But it should not be taken by anyone with a family history of Leber's Optic disease. Because the cyanide molecule in this form is already bound to cobalamin, it will not poison you, however it's not a good choice if you have a higher than normal level of cyanide exposure, such as from heavy smoking.

Hydroxocobalamin is not quite a shelf stable as cyanocobalamin. This form is also the form used to treat cyanide poisoning. Cyanide binds to cobalamin naturally.

Methylcobalamin is less shelf stable than the others. It will turn into hydroxocobalamin with time or if not stored properly.

Adenosylcobalamin is the least shelf stable version and is virtually impossible to make into a supplement.

It is widely believed (though not actually proven) that hydroxocobalamin lasts longer in the body than cyanocobalamin. Both versions are converted by the body into both methylcobalamin and adenosclcobalamin as the body needs them.

One crucial thing to remember about all of the versions of B12 on the market is that all of the forms have to travel the same conversion pathways to become active B12 in the body. Methylcobalamin is not simply absorbed as is and immediately utilized. It actually seems to require one additional conversion step than hydroxocobalamin does.

Right now it is not known why any particular version seems to work better for some people than for others. More research is desperately needed.

 

[Galixie]

I've never come across the notion that intramuscular injections of B12 would be more effective than subcutaneous injections. Can you remember where you saw that?

This is just my experience, not science, but I have tried subQ injections and found that I needed to inject more B12 more frequently to get the same remission of symptoms than an IM injection. So I opt for IM injections because that's what works for me.

I've found that most sublinguals do nothing for me, and I've not tried skin patches or the oils in question. (Neither skin patches nor oils existed when I first started getting B12 injections.)

 

[Hip]

Prof Gottfries's study found that methylcobalamin injections generally work better than hydroxocobalamin injections for ME/CFS and fibromyalgia. He also considers oral folate to be an important supplement to add to B12.

Dr Greg Russell-Jones thinks that the B12 cofactors of vitamin B2 20 mg, molybdenum 100 to 300 mcg, iodine 150 to 300 mcg and selenium 55 to 200 mcg are important to take. See this post for his explanation.

This is just my experience, not science, but I have tried subQ injections and found that I needed to inject more B12 more frequently to get the same remission of symptoms than an IM injection. So I opt for IM injections because that's what works for me.

That's interesting. Perhaps either intramuscular or subcutaneous administration releases the injected B12 into the bloodstream more slowly, so that the body can better utilize the B12?

Greg thinks that an advantage of his B12 transdermal oils is that they release the B12 more slowly into the bloodstream compared to an injection.

 

[Galixie]

Prof Gottfries's study found that methylcobalamin injections generally work better than hydroxocobalamin injections for ME/CFS and fibromyalgia. He also considers oral folate to be an important supplement to add to B12.

That is interesting. My experience with methylcobalamin injections has been mixed. I found the methylcobalamin from one compounding pharmacy worked equally well as the cyanocobalamin I had previously taken. But the methylocobalamin from a different, more local, compounding pharmacy was actually less effective for me than cyano had been. Which, along with cost considerations, is what prompted me to switch back to cyano. I do take oral folic acid also. For me methyl was, at best, equal to cyano, but not better.

That's interesting. Perhaps either intramuscular or subcutaneous administration releases the injected B12 into the bloodstream more slowly, so that the body can better utilize the B12?

Greg thinks that an advantage of his B12 transdermal oils is that they release the B12 more slowly into the bloodstream compared to an injection.

Subcutaneous is thought to release more slowly than intramuscular. I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes, but it probably played a role in my experience of subQ being less optimal for me.

 

[Remi]

I read it in Pat Kornic's group on FB. Her protocol has 5 mg folic acid as co factor for daily or alternate day injection with 1 ml hydroxo. Can't remember if differs from cyano or methyl.

According to Greg, an estimated 80% of the B12 oil is absorbed, and that actually gives you a dose higher than most injections.

I've never come across the notion that intramuscular injections of B12 would be more effective than subcutaneous injections. Can you remember where you saw that?