Astrazeneca as a potential treatment?

[JollyRoger]

I do some research regarding the vaccination
(Vaccine Yes/No?; which one; etc.)

And in one article I found the following statement about Astrazeneca:


They report that the proteins – known as cytokines – which allow T cells to generate ‘signals’ to the rest of our immune system produced by the body’s immune system in response to the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine predominantly induce Th1 cytokines rather than Th2 cytokines.


We are Th2 dominant.
Could an Astrazeneca jab be beneficial?

Does someone already had one (maybe from England?)

Thanks in advance

 

[Hip]

To my knowledge the T cell response the coronavirus vaccine induces will be specific to SARS-CoV-2. So if you have post-viral fatigue from coronavirus, the vaccine may be helpful (and long COVID patients are indeed reporting improvements in health after coronavirus vaccination).

However, if your ME/CFS is linked to another virus, I don't think the coronavirus vaccine will help fight that virus.



Of course, if we had vaccines for the viruses linked to ME/CFS (like EBV or coxsackievirus B), then getting those vaccinations might help improve ME/CFS symptoms. Unfortunately there are no such vaccines yet available for these viruses.

 

[JollyRoger]

But is it not a general activation of the Th1 axis?
The Bcg vaccine also triggers the immune system, for example, and is helpful against covid...

 

[nerd]

Any immune modulator could be used to boost these cytokines. Immunologists have dozens of options here. The vaccine will help for a short time maybe. But there might also be a small risk if you are allergic.

I've seen Dr. Campbell talk about this like it's something hopeful because it could be studied how the vaccine works. But it isn't really. CFS/ME has been immunologically studied on the superficial level. It's not like there was something obvious. Different cytokines deviate sometimes, probably depending on the phase (pre-PEM vs. PEM). I guess that long-hauler research will face the same faith. Sorry for the pessimism.

 

[godlovesatrier]

It's definitely not helped me, I'm worse than I was before I took it. This is day 4 now today and the fatigue is extremely bad. I think it will be several weeks before it resolves.

 

[Sledgehammer]

It's definitely not helped me, I'm worse than I was before I took it. This is day 4 now today and the fatigue is extremely bad. I think it will be several weeks before it resolves.

Please keep us informed because I'm yet to make a decision.

 

[Alvin2]

It's definitely not helped me, I'm worse than I was before I took it. This is day 4 now today and the fatigue is extremely bad. I think it will be several weeks before it resolves.

Which vaccine did you get?

 

[JES]

Some ME/CFS patients report improvements following various vaccines, but usually the benefit is temporary. For example the staphylococcus vaccine had to be taken monthly to maintain benefits. I'd be amazed if vaccination would cure anyone's ME/CFS permanently unless it directly hits the pathogen causing your symptoms.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Astrazeneca vaccine sorry. The dizziness is really bad. It's not vertigo it's just extreme dizziness with bad fatigue. But I'm praying that in 3 weeks once the DNA/rna has stopped multiplying things will calm down. Thing is I have to go through this all over again in June!! Not good.

I would try to get a different brand or vaccine if your at all able.

 

[Revel]

@godlovesatrier, l had the AstraZenica vaccine last Saturday morning and it's been a miserable experience so far.

Within 12 hours, l lost the ability to sit upright, stand or walk (although l am generally housebound with ME/POTS l am usually fairly mobile indoors). I lost my voice and could only mouth words. The headache was severe, as was the nausea and retching. My partner wanted to take me to hospital, he was so concerned, but pwME and hospitals are not a good combo and l refused to go.

Day 5, and I am mobile but extremely weak, breathless and have increased tachycardia and muscle pain (similar to a bad case of PEM for me). I still have nausea and feel lousy overall. I do not have pain at the injection site (left arm), but the axillary lymph nodes on this side are on fire and really tender.

I am going to ask my GP for an anti-emetic prior to the second dose.

I am not looking forward to doing this again - even if the side effects are reportedly less, it remains to be seen if this includes pwME who had severe symptoms first time around.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I forgot to say, my voice has been CROAKY the last 4 days. I mean major CROAK in my throat. @Revel you sound like you were even worse a reaction than I was Sorry!

I took 9 bcaa tablets thismorning which is about 4g of bcaa's and I am still feeling fatigued and not entirely awake.

I really hope you feel better soon, that is a horrid reaction

 

[Treeman]

I had the astrazeneca vaccine, but I also caught covid 5 weeks before the vaccine. The covid had a significant negative effect on me. The vaccine helped a little with the recovery from covid. I'm at 8 weeks now and have almost returned to pre a covid level. The vaccine left me feeling a bit rough the day after with aches and bloated lymph nodes. I wouldn't say it has helped my ME/CFS in any way.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Day 6 now and I've still got bad fatigue, aches in my joints re-appeared yesterday and I've also got a bit of a cough going on. Woke up feeling normal though for the first time in days, but 30 minutes later started to feel fatigued and rough. So certainly didn't last!

 

[nerd]

So far, the Johnson vaccine has very few reported adverse effects. It doesn't protect as well but maybe this one is a safer option. For the Biontech and Moderna vaccines, there are over 30,000 Anaphylaxis reports alone so far (in the US).

 

[godlovesatrier]

On my quest to find more info about the vaccine antibody timeline I found this article:

T cell and antibody responses induced by a single dose of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 (AZD1222) vaccine in a phase 1/2 clinical trial
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01194-5

This particular picture was pretty neat:
Fig. 1: Activation of lymphocyte populations after ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccination.

 

[pattismith]

It's definitely not helped me, I'm worse than I was before I took it. This is day 4 now today and the fatigue is extremely bad. I think it will be several weeks before it resolves.

let's hope you will improve quicker than you think. Lot's of healthy people have some bad days following the vaccine and it resolves fully after that. I cross fingers you will be better tomorrow

 

[godlovesatrier]

Thanks Patti. Normally I recover quickly but no real improvement yet.

 

[Emmarose47]

I've heard some people.on facebook.groups in UK report improvement of CFS symptoms after AS vac ... One women reporting her CFS symptoms have gone ..
With what longevity I do not know

 

[Rufous McKinney]

and feel lousy overall

Thats mostly what I expect would/will happen when/if I get one. My body will get a full pretend case of COVID and I'll feel like crap and take weeks to recover AGAIN.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Well it's exactly 7 days now and the worst of the side effects went thismorning. Although I think this is mainly due to the Lauricidin I'm taking. All 9000mg per day of it. At any rate my legs and knees still feel weak but the terrible muscle fatigue I had has abated thankfully and the dizziness has been pushed to the background. I'm convinced if I don't keep on top of it though the dizziness will come back. As I have no idea what causes it it's pure luck when I do get it under control.

I also took a few doses of andrographis paniculata which just made me feel worse as did the Lauricidin. But today finally the side effects lifted and I actually felt a lot better when taking both.

I also found symptoms of ebv again last night. I get two red marks that run down both sides of my throat infront of my tonsils. When this happens with a few over symptoms I know ebv is replicating. So now I've got that under control too. Very glad it's over (hopefully won't be that bad until the next shot!!)