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Article: Four Viruses! Alter Paper Confirms Retroviral Findings in CFS

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As someone who has been reading these boards for a while now without posting I'd like to register that I actually find the posts of people like Cort and his disciples far more upsetting than those of people like V99 and AWOL. But I expect that my views will be ignored and disregarded as they don't fit in with the ephos of this forum and the close knit clique that control things just the way they like it. I find Cort incredibly annoying actually. Am I allowed to say that? I read here because you do get good posts from scientifically aware people which help to explain things to me. What I hate is the blatant controlling of anything that doesn't toe the Cort line. If anyone dares to go against the Cort line, in jump the usual disciple suspects to offer their support and to smear those that dared to speak out, usually the "moderators", i.e secret police who, to my mind are just as guilty as those that they claim are rude and disruptive and upset me. So does the fact that these people upset many too on the "other" side not mean that they should be censored, told off, removed from the group? Why are they in the right?

Cort made many mistakes in this "article". It's not the first time it has happened. Does he not realise the amount of damage it can do? Frankly he's in way over his head. He's not the Messiah, no matter what he or his disciples might think, he's a very naughty boy, and someone who's in it to feed his own massive ego and career development. Oh and his ME is NOTHING like mine. Maybe that's why he likes psychobabble therapies so much?

I look forward to now being banned for speaking the truth and on the end of the disciples' own nasty posts. It'll be a record anyway, being banned after making just one post. Dissent happens for a reason, and Cort and your disciples, ARE that reason.

Toodle pip.

Here's a different perspective. Aside from the assertion that there are disciples looming, is it possible that some people see this site as a valuable tool for information, and do not read insidious motivations into honest human errors? And get irritated when the topic gets hijacked into that inflammatory, circular conversation? Can you see how this might frustrate people coming here to learn about research regarding their illness? The source of conflict has generally stemmed from the accusation of intentional wrongdoing. Not the pointing out of errors.

I quietly watched from the sides for quite a long while, as it seems you have done, but really got disgusted after a certain point. I don't know Cort from a hole in the wall. I don't have any loyalties other than recovering. But let's be honest- the guy has spent a great deal of time and effort assembling this advocacy/information forum, which costs us nothing. The conspiracy theories incite anger because they don't appear to be justified in any way.

People make errors. Point them out. Corrections get made, and then move on. Its as simple as that. But some people aren't content even with that.

Your post was also filled with nasty allegations that just don't seem rational given the facts. It's tiring watching this, especially at the expense of an intelligent dialogue about the science, which has again been hijacked. If you think stating this is an act of discipleship- I would ask you to again reconsider your logic.

I had a couple of questions. Why dont you even try to answer them?

All I got was a lot of (ed-cursing) Lancelot that called me (cursing)!!!

Is this the way you would like the forum to work?

This is just not right.

This forum is developing in a very wrong direction.

Its not about V99 and her style/tone etc. Its about the way you do it - ... "my decision alone" ...

If this is your private forum - your playground - where you would like to execute your decision alone, then fine.

Your acts tells us a lot about how you see this place.

I personally dont think it is a good idea to invite people from all over the world to join you in the work of solving ME/CFS and then start to execute decisions alone - on any matter.

It just sends the wrong signal.

But feel free. Afterall its your place.

- Funkster
You're right Funkster everybody got a overheated at times on this thread and I apologize for the name you were called and I edited it out. Now we're backing off. Please lets all watch the personal attacks on both sides.

It was not about just me. I received a number of emails from people who were very distressed at the tone of V99's posts. Whether or not you agree with the decision if you can't see that reasonable people could come to that conclusion then maybe this Forum is not the best place for you. My guess is that if you can understand the decision even if you disagree with it then we're fine. If you can't see any grounds for it then we're definitely not in sync.

As to whether I call an article a blog or article or paper is not an important issue for me. I actually did change the title after someone explained to me how it might look wrong in some peoples eyes. I didn't get that until now - I changed it to Four Viruses! Alter Paper Confirms Retroviral Findings in CFS
As to whether I call an article a blog or article or paper is not an important issue for me. I responded to the title question earlier.

I've never heard of a blog being called a paper. That word is usually reserved for stuff published and printed on...well, you know...paper. Referring to your blog posts as papers is rather self-aggrandizing.
I have waded through all these pages, delighted to find careful and thoughtful responses to Cort's article and delighted to see Cort adjust his article accordingly.

As to the rest, STOP IT! It makes me literally sick--shaky, headachy, nauseous. Why, in order to get the good info I want to find, do I need to also be made more sick by my fellow sufferers? Isn't there enough of that already, everywhere?

Those among us lavishing so much energy on free-for-all nasty criticisms, can expect to have a huge plunge in a couple of days. That's not good for you, either. Moreover, like the rest of us, Cort is ill, so it also serves to make things worse for him.

We all live on the edge of a knife. Kindly keep the sharp edges turned slightly outwards.
There is a difference between having differences of opinion with someone and spilling personal rancor. You know that. I know that. So STOP IT. You are being destructive to everyone, including yourself.
"Serenity now! Serenity now!"
"What is that?"
"The doctor gave me a relaxation cassette. When my blood pressure gets too high, the man on the tape tells me to say 'serenity now!'"
"Are you supposed to yell it?"
"The man on the tape wasn't specific."
- Frank and George, in "The Serenity Now"

"George, letting my emotions out was the best thing I've ever done. Sure, I'm not funny anymore, but there's more to life than making shallow, fairly obvious observations."
- Jerry, in "The Serenity Now"

:Retro smile:
I just went throught all this thread. I have no scientific background so I will not say if the article was 100 % correct or not. I think in the article were some problematic paragraphs but its quite normal because CFS problematic is really difficult and even the scientists after the newest findings dont have yet the answers. I think later Cort tried to explain all the problematic paragraphs from his point of view because some parts of the article could be explaind in positive but also negative way. What I find really good on his article that he doesnt see only the good things but he also try to put some question like about no XMRV finding in Alters paper and so on.
I think he got some critic about his article and it would be OK but the problem was the way of this critic. I think some people just read some parts of the article - they dont read all the posts and they just react because they got angry but they didnt check carefully corts answers - if you want to have this kind of discussion you have to read carefully the article and also the posts. You know you can criticise corts article but to acuse him from psycho lobby or that he devaluate WPI work - its really ridicule. remember also that discussion throught forum is much difficult like oral discussion - sometimes we dont understand good what was written down and we cannot react immediatly so thats why there can be a lot of misunderstandings.
For me personelly - I like strong discussion but I can immagine that this thread was really uncomfortable for a lot of people and cort got a lot of complaining PMs.
I am not surprised that he banned V99 - it was too much. I just find it really pitty because she posted a lot of interesting articles. From her posts I just got impression that she really wanted to be banned and maybe I am wrong but I have impression that also some other members they just got a mood to provoke, they didnt want to discuss just be rude for the last time and then be banned.
once more - its a big pitty - we should spend our energy on something useful or some advocacy - or are we already only so frustrated that we get angry of the people who do something for us?!?
So on the end I ask you - try to discuss in constructive way - we are on one side. there were already some good propositions like to check technical articles whith more people befor posting ....
nasty discussions doesnt help anyone
Sorry V99. If you read this, I'm sorry to have embarrassed you.

As I have said many, many times. Please delete my account--Cort/Lancelot. Until then:

Moderator: Wildaisy's account has been deleted, as per her request.
this thread should be closed

LOL. When you posted this same message a day or two back, I almost replied that you were about a week late.

But I agree Julius...it should be closed. It's the only way to stop feeding these hypocritical folks who clearly see things only as black & white, who just cannot stop nitpicking w/ ridiculous comments like "I've never heard it called a paper", and who repeatedly fuse to answer the same questions they've asked of Cort -- who, newsflash, has changed parts of the article multiple times in response to constructive criticism.
Lancelot please contain your responses, some of your comments above have been out of line too, including labelling people mentally ill above (please remove that) and another comment which I previously asked you (by PM) to remove. We are all frustrated by this argument but responding with abusive comments doesn't help anyone. Those kind of posts aren't acceptable here either.
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