Article: Four Viruses! Alter Paper Confirms Retroviral Findings in CFS

You can view the page at http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/content.php?213-Four-Viruses-The-Alter-XMRV-Paper-Arrives

 

Not so very cynical, OS. Yes, AIDS patients require meds, very expensive meds. Combine today's recession with sky-rocketing health costs, medicare cuts, the price of insurance premiums, powerful insurance lobbyists, boomers who are going to hit medicare like no other generation before, and ask yourself are we in any better position today for another AIDS epidemic? Call me cynical, but I think it's going to be a long time before help comes our way -- insurance paid help. Best bet, get in a drug trial.

I think treating CFS patients would be the best economic stimulous this country could have. In fact, if effective treatments come out, I may just buy some stocks if I have any money left. Businesses are going to have many more consumers filling up the stores, restaurants, and ski slopes for sure!
My position is many more people are sick than reallize. And those sick people are just struggling throuhg the work week and collpasing on the couch. It is what I have done for the last 25 years. If I get treatment I will be out working, off social security, and creating all kinds of economic activity.

 

Actually- that's like saying someone follows a racist pattern, but isn't a racist. The mud sticks, and then falls on the accused to defend. Probably better to hold back on statements like that unless your 110% sure. It doesn't sound like you are.

I am entirely convinced of what I have said.

And yes, we can all be guilty quite easily of non-deliberate racism. The sooner we acknowledge this, the sooner racism will cease to be an issue. We have to deal with the subtleties, not just the extremes.

 

I am entirely convinced of what I have said.

And yes, we can all be guilty quite easily of non-deliberate racism. The sooner we acknowledge this, the sooner racism will cease to be an issue. We have to deal with the subtleties, not just the extremes.

Can the "charge" of sexism be made only when a woman or women are being discussed? What about statements like,

"I have never ever in my life heard such a thing said about obviously socially impaired male scientists. "

 

Does sexism apply only when we are talking about women? What about statements like, "I have never ever in my life heard such a thing said about obviously socially impaired male scientists. "

Well have you heard such things said about them? I would love to see an example. Because I can provide many examples of women in prominent positions being attacked on peripheral details and not substance.

And would anyone like to put forward and ALTERNATIVE reason why Mikovits is being attacked repeatedly for such an irrelevant thing here? And why, in an interview with her and Vincent Racaniello, he chose to give Racy's words more weight and virtually ignore her comments?

 

And would anyone like to put forward and ALTERNATIVE reason why Mikovits is being attacked repeatedly for such an irrelevant thing here?

Maybe because ME/CFS is already controversial and some people would prefer if the science would speak more for itself. I've heard different doctors and the like, including male doctors (shock!), being criticised in my time after they have done interviews. Is Dr. Shepherd being criticised by some because he is a man?

 

Mmm this seems odd: guilty until proven otherwise. Now as you may well know, the counterfactual ( a male Mikovits) does bot exist. Hence Cort can not be proven innocent. How unfortunate for him. I'm so glad this forum doesn't do death penalties.
I dread the day I have to prove I am not, in fact, a witch.

 

Since this is dragging on a bit, I would invite everyone to first read what I actually said, before diving in.

I have not accused Cort of general sexism, I have accused him in a particular instance, of reminding me of a sexist pattern of behaviour. I have fully acknowledged that he expresses full and vocal support of two other prominent women, Vernon, and McCleary.

 

Maybe because ME/CFS is already controversial and some people would prefer if the science would speak more for itself. I've heard different doctors and the like, including male doctors (shock!), being criticised in my time after they have done interviews. Is Dr. Shepherd being criticised by some because he is a man?

I all the criticism I have seen of Shepherd, even if incorrect, it has always been related to what he actually does and is supposed to be doing.

 

... I have fully acknowledged that he expresses full and vocal support of two other prominent women, Vernon, and McCleary.

Which completely vitiates your argument that Cort is sexist.

 

I all the criticism I have seen of Shepherd, even if incorrect, it has always been related to what he actually does and is supposed to be doing.

I'm not an expert on what has been said about JM and don't think I have posted anything about her that is particularly negative (I post a lot) but I could well imagine that sexism could have absolutely nothing to do with any criticisms people make of JM. To bring in sexism restricts people's freedom to make points. Maybe there is too much chat, nit-picking, etc on forums and the like - but I don't think it's just about JM.

 

Which completely vitiates your argument that Cort is sexist.

And if you actually read what I said, you would realize that I did not say that Cort is sexist, I said that in this particular instance he is reminding me strongly of my experience of sexism.

 

And if you actually read what I said, you would realize that I did not say that Cort is sexist, I said that in this particular instance he is reminding me strongly of my experience of sexism.

I did read what you wrote:

On True Objectivity, and the Need for Clarity

....

However when it comes to Mikovits, he does not extend the same courtesy. There also we do not know what is going on behind the scenes. There also, we do not know all of the crap they are dealing with. Instead of accepting that he does not fully understand why the WPI approaches things the way they do, he never misses an opportunity to question their credibility. I am personally deeply offended by the attacks on Judy Mikovits's PR skills on this site. To me, this stinks of sexism...

(emphasis added)

 

And if you actually read what I said, you would realize that I did not say that Cort is sexist, I said that in this particular instance he is reminding me strongly of my experience of sexism.

I did not say that X is a bully/communist/whatever, I said that in this particular instance he is reminding me strongly of my experience of bullying/communism*/whatever. Still looks like an accusation to me.

 

1. He does not extend the same courtesy. This is my central point that is getting quite lost here. Thank-you for putting in bold.

2. TO ME it stinks of sexism makes it clear that this is a personal reaction. Note that at no point did I ever say "Cort is a sexist". I criticized the particular behaviour and instance.

 

I did not say that X is a bully/communist/whatever, I said that in this particular instance he is reminding me strongly of my experience of bullying/communism*/whatever. Still looks like an accusation to me.

and I would very much like for he himself to give me an alternative explanation for why he has been making so many, repeated, derisive comments about a brilliant scientist who has done nothing but try to help us. It is a pattern that I have seen far too often and experienced directly, and I will not downplay this reality because it is absolutely part of the politics of all contemporary situations, including the politics of ME/CFS.

 

...

2. TO ME it stinks of sexism makes it clear that this is a personal reaction. Note that at no point did I ever say "Cort is a sexist". I criticized the particular behaviour and instance.

OK, IN YOUR OPINION Cort behaves like a sexist. How is this different from actually being sexist?

 

Read earlier comments in thread.

 

I will not downplay this reality because it is absolutely part of the politics of all contemporary situations, including the politics of ME/CFS.

I could say:
I think ad hominem attacks are a problem rather discussing issues and tactics. I will not downplay this reality because it is absolutely part of the politics of all contemporary situations, including the politics of ME/CFS.

 

Read earlier comments in thread.

I have read the whole thread - don't presume other people cannot read and comprehend what you have written.

 

I could say:
I think ad hominem attacks are a problem rather discussing issues. I will not downplay this reality because it is absolutely part of the politics of all contemporary situations, including the politics of ME/CFS.

Yes, but here the issue is precisely the question of why people have become exasperated with Cort's coverage.