Are round body/ persister bugs treated???


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australia (brisbane)
The round body persister meds seem to me to give the biggest herx reactions.

Does anyone stay on something like doxy all the time for spirochettes but when it comes to round bodies, pulse them in some way to reduce the herx reactions. Im theorizing the round bodies will convert back to spirochettes and get hit with the doxy also.

Recent week of rifampin was a struggle. After a short break i started bactrim, which i usually feel good on, its smashing me too but not as bad as rifampin. I did run 5 days of flagyl and it was ok.

I know flagyl use to be a cyst drug but then research said it wasnt but ive since read it is. Something similar with bactrim also. I think it was Zhang studies a few years after his big 2015 studies mention flagyl and bactrim being round body/cyst/persister drugs. If dapsone hits it then i cant see why bactrim with its similar effects isnt hitting these buggers.



Senior Member
United Kingdom
Look for Quorum Sensing Inhibitors because they like to use biofilms to protect themselves. Enzymes can then help to break down their biofilms. QSI's help to stop them from rebuilding their biofilm and without QSI's they will quickly re-inforce their biofilm with all the nutrients present in the bloodstream. Antimicrobials might then have more effect against them.

I do not know what QSI's they use. There is a site that lists QSI's or Efflux pumps, both are very closely related, for different microorganisms.

Here is one site I have bookmarked:
It suggests that Borrelia Burgdorferi, at least the one strain that I looked at, uses ABC (ATP Binding Cassette) Efflux pumps mainly, with some minor MFS (Major Facilitator Superfamily) activity. The main EPI for ABC EP's is Reserpine (Rauwolfia serpentina & Rauwolfia vomitoria) but I would be reluctant to use that in sufficient doses to affect them because of it's side effects ie bradycardia and depression and lowered blood pressure. It was once used to lower blood pressure until better things were found.

EPI's and QSI's are fairly interchangeable. Something which will inhibit Efflux Pumps will also inhibit Quorum sensing.

For destroying the pathogen(s) which causes ME (Vipond et al 2018), I would use some Reserpine, I do have some, because smaller quantities can be used and the bradycardia can be countered by using other herbs which also have some EPI activity. Another herb that I use which benefits the pituitary/hypothalamus also causes bradycardia so I have to be very careful. Usually around 55/56 bpm, as low as a highly trained athlete....I wish that was true.
A role for a leaky gut and the intestinal microbiota in the pathophysiology of myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS)
Disappointing research IMO because he made no attempt to located the pathogen(s), something which I worked out in Jan 2014 just after he began his research. The shift in immune function caused by the Increased Digestive Permeability and inflammation is what prevents the immune system from keeping viruses in check. Treating viruses is not the solution and cannot fix this condition. It just wastes time, money and energy.
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