Are Gulf War Illness Studies Pointing to Gut Healers for ME/CFS and Fibromyalgia?

[ljimbo423]

Are Gulf War Illness Studies Pointing to Gut Healers for ME/CFS and Fibromyalgia?

by Cort Johnson, August 11, 2021

Conclusion

These are mouse studies that may or may not translate to humans, but as mouse studies are often the first step to human drug trials, there’s clearly enough overlap between humans and mice for researchers to use them, again and again, to suss out possibilities.


The studies illuminated once again, what a powerful influence the gut – in particular, a leaky gut – can have on both the body and the brain.

While one might have expected the combination of a stressor, an anti-nerve agent, and an insecticide to give the central nervous system a good whack, it was surprising to see how much it also affected the gut.

It now appears, as well, that the gut microbiome is much more than about the gut bacteria – the gut virome must be studied as well. In fact, if the gut virome is the great gut flora regulator, it may take central place at some point.


With similar gut findings showing up in ME/CFS and FM, and the GWI field producing new treatment possibilities for the ME/CFS and FM fields to mull over, the GWI field is clearly a field to keep an eye on.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

well I thought we were keeping an eye on the Gulf War studies...yet wake me up if something happens....

 

[bertiedog]

Don't think this is off-topic but last night I listened to a segment on BBC Radio 4 at 9 pm and it was about how scientists were learning how the gut microbiome affected brain function/behaviour in elderly rats which they felt would translate to humans and benefit their health and wellbeing.

The study was with older rats, they wanted to establish whether introducing gut poo from younger rats would affect their behaviour/health. It sounded quite disgusting when they injected the poo from the younger rats into the elderly rats via their mouths and then watched for any changes. They had previously analysed the elderly rats microbiome and compared it with the younger rats' microbiome.

Indeed the older rats started moving around more and their behaviour was very similar to the young rats. They used either PET or MRI imaging of the hippocampus of the older rats to look for any changes in that area and compared to how it had looked prior to the introduction of the poo and yes they found that the hippocampus was indistinguishable from the young rats with many positive changes.

I don't think they expected that at all but it confirmed how the microbiome of elderly rats and presumably elderly humans changes with age becoming less diverse and with several pathobionts (pathogenic bacteria) but if one is able to introduce specific species of so called good bacteria then one's behaviour/health can change too. They did stress how a varied diet can help to stave off so called normal changes of ageing.

I have learned from CFS Remission site - Microbiome Prescription section that I needed to add more FOS, GOS and PHGG fibre to my diet to increase butyrate, bifidobacteria and a few others and have been able to add all these for over a month now to my diet. One benefit has been much better quality of sleep as confirmed by my Fitbit. I am not sleeping for very long, around 6 - 6 1/2 hours but I sleep non stop for most of that time without moving around and have had slightly better energy especially in the mornings. I have also been taking around 100 mg NMN so that might have helped too but I find the gut information fascinating and something we can all learn from and hopefully put some of it into practise.

Pam

 

[bertiedog]

With regard to Cort's article he was actually incorrect when he was implying Firmicutes were not good. In fact I have learned from the Microbiome Prescription site and Jason Hawrelak's suggestions (an expert in the microbiome) that the best microbiome consists of around 20% Bacteriodes and the rest Firmicutes at 80%. That might be controversial but he did explain that most of the beneficial bacteria are Firmicutes. This would be typical of somebody who eats primarily a plant based diet I believe.

Goes to show how as one delves deeper into the microbiome it isn't straightforward.

Pam

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

@bertiedog I saw that same study, it's interesting.

I'm somewhat of a microbiome nerd . I've learned that beneficial bacteria can effect an environment, yet the opposite is so very true.

Could it be that older human beings, lab mice, are altering their environment through constant feeding? We haven't evolved, yet, for the conditions of constantly available food. It's unnatural.

I've found so much relief from intermittent fasting. I won't eat any day I have an important trip out. My gut is much more stable when I give it a break.

 

[junkcrap50]

Very interesting they saw benefits giving the mice antivirals to kill the bad microviome. Especially since it was Ribavirin, one of the few antivirals for RNA viruses (eg Enteroviruses).

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

wake me up if something happens....

Okey dokey. I'll set my alarm ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@ljimbo423
Like you, I have a definite interest in the microbiome and this illness, but also health in general, and I thought that you'd be interested in the following ....

One of the most difficult things about probiotics is that it's virtually impossible to know what strains of particular genii of, say, Lacto or bifido bacterials are being used in the generally available blends being hawked all over the internet ....

While fighting off a painful tooth infection with a strong herbal antibiotic and confronting the usual colon effects of that, I finally found a source for specific strains ....

OPTIBAC produces well-researched singles and blends of various probiotics, and their blend for use with antibiotics has been a real godsend. Took a smidge less than 2 days to be fully effective, but its beneficial effect was unmistakable when it finally kicked in ....

Recommend them highly.

Also, if anyone else knows of other sources that offer the particular STRAINS of various probiotics, please please post here ....

 

[ljimbo423]

OPTIBAC produces well-researched singles and blends of various probiotics, and their blend for use with antibiotics has been a real godsend. Took a smidge less than 2 days to be fully effective, but its beneficial effect was unmistakable when it finally kicked in ....

Thanks Yippee, I'll look into that!

Also, if anyone else knows of other sources that offer the particular STRAINS of various probiotics, please please post here ....

Custom Probiotics has a good selection of of single probiotics and blends. They also give the specific strains, I just looked.

 

[junkcrap50]

Also, if anyone else knows of other sources that offer the particular STRAINS of various probiotics, please please post here ....

I think I've seen products like that. I remember one probiotic that specified the specific, exact strain. Like it mentioned the exact type of Bifidobacterium lactis , like Bifidobacterium lactis Something #9. The product claimed that various specific strains were in it. I didn't save it the name or who made it and would have to look for it. This might have been it: https://www.howaru.com/hcp/about-probiotics/select-the-right-strain/

Similarly, I saw a microbiome testing service that would subsequently create a bespoke probiotic for you based on your microbiome results. I also can't remember what lab it was, but it should be easier to find.

Lastly, I believe the individual behind the Larssen CFS Blog specifies that only certain strains of probiotics can actually colonize the gut vs being passed through. But I can't remember if he is selling a probiotic or not, or knows of a probiotic source that has specific strains.

On a similar note, I remember reading that yogurt manufactureres who want to add probiotics into their yogurt can basically order any probiotic they want from some huge central catalog with thousands of strains and customize the probiotic ingredients. So with that many options to order from the catalog, they must have specific individual strains. Maybe that's how probotic supplements also get made. But that's very helpful as a patient, just interesting and shows the possibility of getting specific strains.

 

[junkcrap50]

From Cort's article, the inteventions used to reverse dysbosis causing GWS are all available now to try. They were Ribavirin, Andrographolide, and Sparstolonin B. Ribavirin requiers a prescription, but can be bought online from russia very easily. Andrographolide is available as a supplement from many supplement makers. There is also a drug analog of andrographolide called Lianbizhi, which is used commonly in China (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7122281/). While Cort said andrographolide's bioavailabability is quite low, would bioavilability really be necessary if it is working on the gut microbiome? Sparstolonin B is isolated from a Chinese herb , so presumably it is available. But it is unlikely to contain enough of the active ingredient.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Ribavirin requiers a prescription, but can be bought online from russia very easily.

Just FYI: Ribavirin is a mutagenic nucleoside analogue, which means that it requires a very high dose to suppress viruses. At these high doses, it causes bone marrow suppression, which is serious and can even be fatal. Just FYI...

 

[Brandit]

what is the most current generally accepted reasoning for Gulf War?

 

[sometexan84]

Very interesting they saw benefits giving the mice antivirals to kill the bad microviome. Especially since it was Ribavirin, one of the few antivirals for RNA viruses (eg Enteroviruses).

Interesting indeed. I would not have gone to read the article if you hadn't mentioned this.

Ribavirin is what Dr Chia used to treat CFS in one of his studies. Remdesivir is a better version of Ribavirin. And GS-441524 is a better version of Remdesivir. Just sayin

 

[sometexan84]

One of the most difficult things about probiotics is that it's virtually impossible to know what strains of particular genii of, say, Lacto or bifido bacterials are being used in the generally available blends being hawked all over the internet ....

I can attest to this. I hate that they don't include that info...

 

[sometexan84]

Custom Probiotics has a good selection of of single probiotics and blends. They also give the specific strains, I just looked.

Oh wow. Yea, they list them in the Ingredients section of the description. Nice!

 

[sometexan84]

Just FYI: Ribavirin is a mutagenic nucleoside analogue, which means that it requires a very high dose to suppress viruses. At these high doses, it causes bone marrow suppression, which is serious and can even be fatal. Just FYI...

In that Dr Chia study, he had them doing Ribavirin 400 mg twice daily for four months for B3 and B5.

Very important note IMO... all these patients were very very severe and had viral RNA in PBMC.

4x decrease in titers during treatment. Went back up (relapse) 1-2 wks post-treatment.... this was the one w/ just Ribavirin treatment I think... not the Ribavirin + Interferon

 

[sometexan84]

what is the most current generally accepted reasoning for Gulf War?

To thwart Hussein's plans of gaining power by controlling oil supply

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I can attest to this. I hate that they don't include that info...

I think I mentioned Optibac in the UK as a good source of clearly defined and stated strains of probiotics earlier in this thread. They don't have as large a selection as Custom Probiotics, but they carry things Custom doesnt, and their pricing is much friendlier ...

And if Im misremembering, which isn;t entirely impossible, then Ive mentioned it now. Not that I'll remember that down the line ...

Their probiotic blend for avoiding the damages done by antibiotics, or at least the obvious ones, has been incredibly effective for me, and their delivery was fast and as-promised ....

 

[Brandit]

hahahhaha gulf war syndrome i meant. i remember reading some of the information long ago but was curious what narrative was settled on to date.