Anyone have a bad reaction to b vitamins, specifically b6 and b12?

[powertool4]

Is there anyone that experiences very severe and strange side effects from b vitamins? I tried b complexes and they just made my head foggy, dizzy, sensitive to light and didnt feel good so I bought individual B's.

I have tried b12 extensively for methylation and b-12 protocol and it completely jacked me up. I had trouble breathing where i went to the ER, my pulse ox was around 88 upon exertion and continued to drop. All sorts of weird stuff. Brain fog, depression, feeling extremely toxic and ill.

I tried b6 today to see how I do on it and took 10mg of P5P (active form of b6) and immediately felt sedated and a little spacey in the head. (Spacey is never a sign of good for me following supplements). After about 15 minutes, I was so sedated i went to the room and completely knocked out for a good 2 hours cold. I know b6 is a sedating and relaxing vitamin and welcomed the sleep but the biggest side effect was I had trouble breathing. It felt like my lungs or airways were so suppressed and i couldn't breath. I have read that 4 cases of respiratory arrest have occurred (1 each year for the past 4 years) from b6 but i cant imagine 10mg doing that to anyone. I woke up and couldn't breath. I'm drinking tons of water to flush it out of my system if that's even possible to speed it up.

So b12, b6 is no go for me. I have on that list b2, b1, b3, and pantethine and folate.
For some reason, b5 is okay for me even at the 1000% dose, I actually don't even notice it. Perhaps I have some sort of methylation or pathway block that supplementation with b12 and b6 is making worse.

Anyone have these strange reactions?

 

[Karin]

I think it is common to have reactions to B vitamins. That's why I avoid complexes and try one at a time.

Concerning B6: I would start low (e.g. 10 mg) and make sure to take magnesium with it, and increase as tolerated. Magnesium and B6 work together. Also, I do 1/2 P5P and 1/2 regular B6. Not sure how necessary this is or not, just read somewhere it was better to use both, no idea if true.

For B12, I do shots. Other than that I do B1 as benfothiamine 50mg a day, B2 50mg a day, and B6 50mg a day (1/2 P5P and 1/2 B6). And 600 ug folinic acid. About 400 mg mag a day.

I have had sedation and brain fog from several B complexes but I do fine with the above. I cannot stand folic acid but do fine with folinic.

 

[ukxmrv]

Regular B6 is terrible for me. B vitamins in general make me feel much more "malaised" than normal and cause breathing problems and weakness. However, I am lucky enough to tolerate P5P (oddly).

I've noticed that some B vitamins smell yeasty or strange and I could be reacting to that as well.

Have you had the Yasko tests that would show any blockages? I'm not had it done for financial reasons as yet but years ago did a test for the MTHFR mutation (which I have).

Also are there any common additives in the supplements you have taken?

 

[powertool4]

Yeah its very weird. I don't know why and I know it's not an allergic reaction nor is it the form of the vitamin. it must be a block somewhere in some pathway.. I tried 4 different forms of b12 with many brands at different doses and it was nothing about the supplement itself but something that was changing inside of me metabolically.

I haven't had the yasko test done but I do plan on getting 23andme which covers nearly all of the SNPs she tests for. it is much cheaper and you get about 600,000 other SNPs in raw data form for the future.

I did the Genova Detoxigenomics and the doctor will go over it with me but i doubt it'll go over methylation in detail.

 

[guest]

Yeah its very weird. I don't know why and I know it's not an allergic reaction nor is it the form of the vitamin. it must be a block somewhere in some pathway.. I tried 4 different forms of b12 with many brands at different doses and it was nothing about the supplement itself but something that was changing inside of me metabolically.

I haven't had the yasko test done but I do plan on getting 23andme which covers nearly all of the SNPs she tests for. it is much cheaper and you get about 600,000 other SNPs in raw data form for the future.

I did the Genova Detoxigenomics and the doctor will go over it with me but i doubt it'll go over methylation in detail.

If you find out anything new please let us know. I never came behind this mystery of weird intolerances.

 

[boomer]

My daughter had a bad experience this week nebulizing B12. It brought her to such a depression which cleared right up after a couple of days stopping this. Some multivitamins make her feed unwell too. Event the Emergen'C drink for immune defense make her feel nauseated. These experiences then turn her off taking supplements. She loves magnesium and takes lots of CorvalenM and she likes some of the EmergenC drinks. I have the 5 supps for the methylation process but she hasn't tried them. Is there one that would be a sure bet not to make her feel unwell in those 5 Supps - anyone know?

 

[taniaaust1]

I got a bad reaction to the very first two B12 injections I had but after that things were fine and they really helped brain wise (I started off having them weekly). The reaction I got was increased fatigue, increased brain fog and my face broke out in like huge pimples which then developed into BIG sores (I ended up looking like a crystal meth user http://www.sharethecure.org/?script=learn_more.php see that guys face on the link, that's what the first two B12 injections did to my face. My skin is usualy great, I dont even normally suffer from a pimple).

My thoughts on my bodies reaction to the first two injections was that the B12 must of mobilised toxins in my body, and they then were trying to clear out of my skin. In my case i completely ignored the ugly reaction I got as I'd heard of others getting side effects at first (eg increased tiredness) and with the face breakout (with the increased fatigue, I hadnt heard of others getting sores), I was sure it was some kind of cleansing trying to take place thou it still did worry me.

(After the first injection, Id set a limit to what I would accept while trialing the B12, I was willing to try it up to 4-5 more times with side effects in the hope that things would come good with it and the reactions would stop.. if i had breathing or heart issues thou, I would of immediately stopped it).

(I have a MTHFR polymorphism affecting the methylation cycle.. I dont know if I had other blocks too but need to supplement B6, B12 and folate due to the block I have).

In my own case Im very glad I persisted as the B12 injections are the only thing which I've found I can take which have ended up really helping me.

 

[Ocean]

I had a lot of severe mood and sleep issues with B vitamins. Have been scared to give them another shot since past experiences of low doses were so bad but I also wish I was up to trying again since I'm on medication that depletes B vitamins.

 

[taniaaust1]

There is something on the MTHFR website which warns about B12 giving a severe reaction and can be dangerous in some who have a certain genetic issue (the warning mentioned on a MTHFR treatment page by a well known expert). Sorry I cant remember now what the genetic thing is called. Anyway..Im just thinking that those here who are getting the severe B12 reactions probably have that thing going on.

 

[Lotus97]

Certain B vitamins, especially active forms of B12 and folate can cause overstimulation. This along with low potassium are the most common side effects of methylation.

 

[Ocean]

Certain B vitamins, especially active forms of B12 and folate can cause overstimulation. This along with low potassium are the most common side effects of methylation.

Is there anything to be done about it?

 

[Lotus97]

Is there anything to be done about it?

As for the potassium you just take potassium supplements. There are a lot threads discussing this. With the overstimulation, it's a bit tricker. Fredd and others say it's just a start-up symptom and you just have to endure it until it passes, but Rich says that this could lead to overdriving the methylation cycle and that should be avoided. Personally, if my body is trying to tell me something I listen to it which means I reduce or stop what I'm taking. If the overstimulation is from overmethylation, Niacin is supposed reduce the methylation although I haven't found it that useful personally others have found it useful. However, too much niacin can stop the methylation process so some people need to limit the amount of niacin they take during methylation. Although some people disagree with this, Rich and others I've talked to believe that the process of methylation can cause detoxification in some people which means if you have mercury toxicity for example the symptoms of methylation might be from that. Also, methylcobalamin is thought to methylate inorganic mercury. This is why he recommends hydroxocobalamin. As I mentioned, Fredd and others have different opinions on this. There are a lot cofactors for methylation which act synergistically with folate and B12. If you're taking too many of these then that can also lead to the negative side effects. Some of them include Carnitine, Coenzyme Q10, Choline, TMG, Betaine HCL, SAMe, Phosphatidylserine, B6, and P5P. The dosage of all of these are going to depend a lot on the individual. Also, Methylfolate (5MTHF) and methylcobalamin are the most potent and necessary forms of B12 and folate needed for methylation which is part of the reason why Fredd uses only these forms in his protocol, but they are also the most likely to overdrive the methylation process and cause negative side effects such as overstimulation and low potassium. Here is what Rich says about folate and B12:

I actually prefer including both folinic acid and 5-MTHF. 5-MTHF is the form needed by methionine synthase, which is the enzyme with the partial block. Many people's cells are able to convert folinic acid to 5-MTHF well, but many others have inherited genetic polymorphisms that slow this conversion down considerably. The polymorphisms in the MTHFR enzyme are a good example, and these are very prevalent in the population.
Folinic acid is helpful for a couple of reasons. One is that it is very versatile, in that it can be converted to other forms of folate, which are needed to make DNA, RNA, and purines in general. Another factor is that folinic acid is polyglutamated when it is inside the cells, and this can help to lower the amount of free glutamate, which is an excitotoxin. Excitotoxicity is a problem in CFS, and it is often exacerbated when methylation cycle treatment is entered upon.

I prefer hydroxocobalamin for several reasons. One is that it allows the cells to control the amounts of the coenzyme forms of B12 (methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin) that they make, so that they can be matched to the need. Taking methylcobalamin in large dosages by injection or sublingually can overdrive the methylation cycle, as evidenced by a major rise in sarcosine, which I've seen in amino acids testing on some people who have been on this treatment for a while. I am not comfortable with overdriving the methylation cycle, both because I think it slows flow down the transsulfuration pathway and thus limits the normalization of the balance of the sulfur metabolism, including cysteine, glutathione, taurine and sulfate, and also because I am concerned about the possibility of overmethylation of DNA, which could have other deleterious effects.

My other concern is that methylcobalamin is known to be chemically able to methylate inorganic mercury. Many PWCs have significant body burdens of inorganic mercury as a result of having amalgam fillings in their teeth during an extended period while glutathione has been low, so that they have not been able to detox mercury at normal rates. Methylmercury can cross the blood-brain barrier readily. Mercury is a potent neurotoxin if it gets into the brain. This problem has been observed in guinea pigs. I don't have solid evidence for it in humans, but have heard from perhaps three people who may have had this problem, based on what they have reported. So I prefer to be cautious.

This having been said, some people have had good experience with methylcobalamin. It can be especially helpful if a person has a shortage of methyl groups, though that can also be helped by taking some additional trimethylglycine (some of which is in the multi that is part of the simplified treatment). or some SAMe. It's used a lot subcutaneously by the DAN! doctors in autism treatment, and as you probably know, freddd on this forum advocates its use as well. In his case, because of a mutation in the intracellular B12 processing enzymes, his body is not able to utilized hydroxocobalamin readily. But I believe that this is a rare situation, based on the published literature. freddd does not agree that it is rare, based on his experience.