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Anyone ever managed to get back to where they were???

Messages
52
Location
New Zealand
I had moderate ME/CFS for 26 years then in 2016 I became severe couchbound and bedridden after a flu shot,

but in 2017 I had a temporary but near full 6 day remission from a head cold, it was 5 days of hard out sneezing but I had pretty much full energy of a normal person, like I hadn’t felt in all years. On day 6 the cold had cleared and I still felt absolutely amazing! Then day 7 the ME/CFS came back and bedridden ME/CFS again, and have been really bad for 6 more years FFS

But it got me thinking to try Helminthic therapy, (gut worms) the reason is I think that if a head cold can distract the immune system from ME/CFS and restore near full health while infected then maybe being infected with gut worms could too.

So I contacted the company in the UK but he said no because ME/CFS patients become severely ill from the human ones he sells. He said to contact the company that sells porcine gut worms, apparently they can’t handle the immune system and die in 2 weeks. So you have to keep re-taking them.

It was too expensive to even start and apparently takes 12 months before you know if the therapy works. So I didn’t bother. But know that I’m deteriorating further I might reconsider it.
 
Messages
13
I use caryophyllene and I source it from Copaiba essential oil. I use it sublingually so it can reach my brain and nervous system without my liver metabolising it and making it unusable for the specific target I am targeting which is CB2 receptors. These are expressed across many immune cell types. I also take it in gelatin capsules (5-6 drops) to target more of the body but specifically the gut which is intimately connected to the brain, nervous system and ME/CFS symptoms.

I take before bed and when I get up. I then take it every 3-4 hours or before and after activity. We know when we know if something will trigger your condition so use it like a preventative and PEM preventer by taking before and after. If resting and not doing anything to trigger ME/CFS symptoms take every 3-4 hours.

I did mix with MCT oil to dilute and it worked good. To save money I now just take it pure as I do not mind the taste, 1 maybe 2 drops. After 1-2 minutes so it can absorb under my tongue through the mucosa I take a drink or food to remove the taste. It is in fact a flavour deemed safe for consumption by FDA and EU food safety agency.

I have today read in an old thread that you asked before and I am sorry I did not answer you then. I was dealing with immune activation from the treatment at the time. The immune activation is part of the treatment we may possible go through as our immune system pulls back and is able to recognise any opportunistic infections and functionally attack those. If and when this is experienced I take the copaiba much less so not to get in the way of functional immune activation for about 7-10 days or when it feels like it is subsiding. It can be like a mild increase of ME/CFS and stress (see image below) can be a big trigger while like this so avoid. When I cut back I use before bed and when I wake, then maybe if I feel too bad to manage it. I used CBD a lot at first and it works synergistically with caryophyllene and was necessary at the beginning and infrequent now. I used the CBD sublingually.
Dragonfly CBD Cannabidiol Oil 1000mg 10ml | CBD | Boots
View attachment 48607
Bought this 100ml 6months ago and still have a bit under half left

Amazing non-cannabis cannabinoid: Caryophyllene 3 - YouTube This video covers science and a product made with caryophyllene.

It is shifting between these microglia states the CB2 agonist works, it also affects many other immune cells in a positive way for us (ME/CFS) but I want to keep this short for you, ask questions if you like just do it on any of my threads so I do not invade other peoples.
View attachment 48602
Microglia Polarization From M1 to M2 in Neurodegenerative Diseases - PMC (nih.gov)

Abstract

Microglia-mediated neuroinflammation is a common feature of neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease (AD), Parkinson’s disease (PD), amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), and multiple sclerosis (MS). Microglia can be categorized into two opposite types: classical (M1) or alternative (M2), though there’s a continuum of different intermediate phenotypes between M1 and M2, and microglia can transit from one phenotype to another. M1 microglia release inflammatory mediators and induce inflammation and neurotoxicity, while M2 microglia release anti-inflammatory mediators and induce anti-inflammatory and neuroprotectivity. Microglia-mediated neuroinflammation is considered as a double-edged sword, performing both harmful and helpful effects in neurodegenerative diseases. Previous studies showed that balancing microglia M1/M2 polarization had a promising therapeutic prospect in neurodegenerative diseases. We suggest that shifting microglia from M1 to M2 may be significant and we focus on the modulation of microglia polarization from M1 to M2, especially by important signal pathways, in neurodegenerative diseases.

The protective effects of β-caryophyllene on LPS-induced primary microglia M1/M2 imbalance: A mechanistic evaluation | Request PDF (researchgate.net)

Abstract

Aims Neuroinflammation is observed as a routine characterization of neurodegenerative disorders such as dementia, multiple sclerosis (MS) and Alzheimer's diseases (AD). Scientific evidence propounds both of the neuromodulatory and immunomodulatory effects of CB2 in the immune system. β-Caryophyllene (BCP) is a dietary selective CB2 agonist, which deserves the anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects at both low and high doses through activation of the CB2 receptor. Methods In this study, we investigated the protective effects of a broad range concentration of BCP against LPS-induced primary microglia cells inflammation and M1/M2 imbalance and identifying the portion of the involvement of related signaling pathways on BCP effects using pharmacological antagonists of CB2, PPAR-γ, and sphingomyelinase (SMase). Key findings The protective effects of BCP on LPS-induced microglia imbalance is provided by the M2 healing phenotype of microglia, releasing the anti-inflammatory (IL-10, Arg-1, and urea) and anti-oxidant (GSH) parameters and reducing the inflammatory (IL-1β, TNF-α, PGE2, iNOS and NO) and oxidative (ROS) biomarkers. Moreover, we showed that BCP exerts its effects through CB2 receptors which overproduction of ceramides by SMase at middle to higher concentrations of BCP reduce the protective activity of BCP and results in the activation of the PPAR-γ pathway. Significance In conclusion, the low concentration of BCP has higher selective anti-inflammatory effects rather than high levels. On this occasion, BCP by modulating the microglia is able to have potential therapeutic effects in neuro-inflammation conditions and microglia cells such as MS and AD.


Taking too much may not be beneficial and many medications use the same enzymes to metabolise so may interact with many common medications.
If anyone is considering taking caryophyllene, caryophyllene oxide and Humulene containing substances please check medications- CYP3A | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

Regarding the sublingual copaifera officinalis:
So I could take this product, sublingual? Pranarom Copaifera officinalis
https://www.shop-apotheke.com/beauty/BE02800779/pranarom-copaifera-officinalis.htm
Would that be ok?
If so, how would you dose it? I would take it for/against brainfog.
Are there risks involved?
I mean... these products are not really ment to be used sublingual, right? ^^
I heard it's best to take a few drops, mix them with Oliveoil, and put it below the tongue.
(and then spit it out, correct?. Not swallowing, right?)

Does it interfere with medications like betablockers, LDA, LDN, H1/H2, Melatonin or other of the usual things we often have to take?

Please let me know, I wanna try this for my brainfog, but I can't read long articles, my brainfog does not allow that ://

So I would appreaciate a condensed, short and sweet instruction, plus risk/benefit and potential risks.

Thank you very much!!
Oliver
 

CSMLSM

Senior Member
Messages
973
Regarding the sublingual copaifera officinalis:
So I could take this product, sublingual? Pranarom Copaifera officinalis
https://www.shop-apotheke.com/beauty/BE02800779/pranarom-copaifera-officinalis.htm
Would that be ok?
If so, how would you dose it? I would take it for/against brainfog.
Are there risks involved?
I mean... these products are not really ment to be used sublingual, right? ^^
I heard it's best to take a few drops, mix them with Oliveoil, and put it below the tongue.
(and then spit it out, correct?. Not swallowing, right?)

Does it interfere with medications like betablockers, LDA, LDN, H1/H2, Melatonin or other of the usual things we often have to take?

Please let me know, I wanna try this for my brainfog, but I can't read long articles, my brainfog does not allow that ://

So I would appreaciate a condensed, short and sweet instruction, plus risk/benefit and potential risks.

Thank you very much!!
Oliver
You want Caryophyllene and can buy isolate, Copaiba is just a good natual source with long history of medical use.
If you use Copaiba buy steam distilled only. Buying an isolate of Caryophyllene will likely be better but more expensive.

There are different types of Copaiba tree with varying amounts of Caryophyllene.

Caryophyllene is actually a component of cannabis resin in many strains so has been consumed long term via smoking without issue and is actually a food flavouring so is very safe indeed and is in many foods and spices people consume everyday like pepper and turmeric.

I use a vape pen now to consume Copaiba and this avoids issues with medications and liver enzymes.

Use as needed but in general before and after activity and atleast every 4 hours when you get started.

This will not work if you are low in Omega 3 and research suggests most of us are.

This is because Caryophyllene is a CB2 agonist and omega 3 is needed for functional CB receptors.

Hope that helps.
 

PhoenixDown

Senior Member
Messages
456
Location
UK
There are no indications that ME involves permanent degradation. The available evidence (people who have achieved remission) shows the opposite.
I can't take pain killers because they don't prevent the permanent damage I experience when I exert myself beyond my deteriation threshold. I think patients who experience LTSE - Long Term Symptom Exacerbation should be labelled as having type 2 ME or be given a different diagnosis all together. People don't associate ME with damage and it's not fair towards patients who experience it.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,751
Location
Alberta
Long term is not the same as permanent. By permanent I'm talking about irreversible loss of cells or some of their functions. Cell functions held in an abnormal state long-term is different, and could be quickly reversible by the right treatment. My ME symptoms are certainly being held in that abnormal state long-term, but the right trigger managed to switch it fully off over a matter of minutes.

I don't know enough about LTSE to say whether there might be some cases that absolutely can't be rapidly switched off. It's certainly possible that some might involve accumulations of something that is slow to remove, and some might involve loss of cells that might be slow to rebuild.