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Anyone else get brainfog/lethargy from malic acid?

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,739
Location
Alberta
I bought some sour (malic acid) candies, and found that they gave me fairly severe brainfog and lethargy. Many of us have various sensitivities, and it would be helpful if we could find a chemical that many of us have a reliable response to, which researchers could focus on.

We should probably have one or more threads about chemicals that we have reliable responses to. Maybe set up as separate lists for common symptoms, since ME has so many variations that we'd drown in individual responses involving far upstream/downstream effects. Thoughts?
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,363
it would be helpful if we could find a chemical that many of us have a reliable response to, which researchers could focus on.

Agree....

Like a way to have a simple list....in some summarized form, but details elsewhere...

Researcher friendly!
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,372
Location
Southern California
We should probably have one or more threads about chemicals that we have reliable responses to.
I don't know if this is possible. e.g., BCAAs have helped many people here both with energy and other issues - unfortunately, there are some who did react badly to BCAAs. I don't know of any single thing I've read about here which everyone has had a good - or bad - response to. A majority of people can react this way or that - but I've never seen anything to which we all reacted the same, which is what I am guessing you mean by a "reliable response".

fwiw, I did take malic acid way back when before I officially started crashing (late 1990's) and I had a good response to it re energy. Unfortunately, it thereafter lost its effectiveness -
 

Viala

Senior Member
Messages
640
I tried malic acid but it was too harsh for me, no brainfog or lethargy though. Apples and ACV are ok.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,739
Location
Alberta
I don't know of any single thing I've read about here which everyone has had a good - or bad - response to.

Yes, but if we ignore the possibility, we might miss a valuable opportunity. I'm just not sure of the most convenient way of collecting that data. I suppose one of Google's AIs could sift through all ME postings looking for foods&chemicals and positive or negative responses.

Google, fetch. Fetch! I'll give you a cookie if you do. :)
 
Messages
600
There is a thread from a while ago where pyrrhus mentioned he crashed from malic acid. Also some theories to explain it in there if you search for it.

edit: but this is an aspect the researchers havent studied much i think, could reveal something about the disease.
 
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ZeroGravitas

Senior Member
Messages
141
Location
UK
pyrrhus mentioned he crashed from malic acid
Did you mean this?:
I tried a 150mg dose of malic acid once.

It gave me a brief energy boost, followed by a 2-week crash. But that's just me.
Higher in that thread, there was speculation that malate might be useful like the experimental Oxaloacetate treatment:
I wonder if malic acid would have the same impact as OAA since it enters the Krebs cycle as malate which gets converted to OAA.
 
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ZeroGravitas

Senior Member
Messages
141
Location
UK
Personally, I found (18 months back) that magnesium malate (probably), which I'd been taking for many years, started causing me new joint discomfort and elbow locking up...
(1) Magnesium malate (1000mg) - doubling up, from only at bedtime, to breakfast too, in place of (a slightly greater higher dose) magnesium citrate tablet. I made the change because I was wondering if I was taking too much magnesium, relative to other things. E.g. calcium, I don't supplement extra potassium at all as it just seems to make me more fatigued. Seems weird that changing the form of magnesium could cause this. But it was my top suspect from the close timing. Can different citric acid cycle substrate concentrations modulate immune activity or anything particular?
... Which resolved after reducing it back to one tablet/day.

But then I had to remove malate entirely, 9 months back, for magnesium orotate now (a different CCA intermediate). Because I started getting signs of early CCI-like symptoms (neck clenching/aches, upright discomfort, moments of light dizziness and minor numbness). Which I would really love to understand. o_O

Then, from a few months after switching magnesium type, I've been getting some new (mostly deep) internal sensations, mostly in my legs, when at rest. Like turbulent liquid flow, not pulsing, maybe tingling. Probably the thin end of "internal vibrations", like maybe e.g. 1, 2, 3. I'm thinking because I've greatly reduced my overall magnesium intake (and been trying pulsing a B-vit multi).

Anyway, I'm aiming to make a post about my current struggle with balancing these (and other) electrolyte supp's verses these new and old symptoms (of various categories). But I'm never sure which forum section is best to solicit advice..?
 
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