anna8 jaw bone cavitations and me

[anna8]

Hi everyone!
I'm going through all the symptoms of ME! Too many too mention like most of us!
But my story journey! Has dental and jaw bone connection, some by chance!
So after reading some of other members symptoms and stories I,be been thinking that other people may have jaw bone connection or dental connection too!
I have done a lot of research on the subject to try and help myself from this hell!! And maybe help others.
I have so much too say but because of my symptoms I find it hard to collect my thoughts and put them down on paper, so I thought I,d start this thread so I can say a little at a time at my own pace!

Most of us have a illness that can not be explained by conventional medicine!
Most of us are searching for answers to the same are similar symptoms!
Could it be jaw bone cavitations?
I feel quite certain that I have jaw bone cavitations! My problem is too find the best person to help me! I am considering going to Munro hall in the UK! I know another member has been there and had a good outcome!
My problem is I've already had a lot of work done I think by dentist who are out of there depths so have left me with bone loss and not many teeth!!
So before I go to Munro hall my last chance I feel I want to leave no stone unturned! And I know there is soo... much knowledge on this forum I welcome input questions and more!!

 

[robertpcx]

Hi everyone!
I'm going through all the symptoms of ME! Too many too mention like most of us!
But my story journey! Has dental and jaw bone connection, some by chance!
So after reading some of other members symptoms and stories I,be been thinking that other people may have jaw bone connection or dental connection too!
I have done a lot of research on the subject to try and help myself from this hell!! And maybe help others.
I have so much too say but because of my symptoms I find it hard to collect my thoughts and put them down on paper, so I thought I,d start this thread so I can say a little at a time at my own pace!

Most of us have a illness that can not be explained by conventional medicine!
Most of us are searching for answers to the same are similar symptoms!
Could it be jaw bone cavitations?
I feel quite certain that I have jaw bone cavitations! My problem is too find the best person to help me! I am considering going to Munro hall in the UK! I know another member has been there and had a good outcome!
My problem is I've already had a lot of work done I think by dentist who are out of there depths so have left me with bone loss and not many teeth!!
So before I go to Munro hall my last chance I feel I want to leave no stone unturned! And I know there is soo... much knowledge on this forum I welcome input questions and more!!

Have you looked at magnesium supplements?

 

[anna8]

Yes I have just started taking magnesium and I have found it to be helpful with constipation!
And I have found that anything that helps me with the gut and keeping things moving does help! My thought are is that it is helping my body remove the toxins from the bone cavitations!
I read someone saying that the magnesium helps the body, gut to absorb water! Which I can relate to!

 

[anna8]

I think usually all of us can look back to event that started there ill health! I think for most of us it's when an illness has put stress on our immune system and it never recovers! Through my own experience of going to alternative doctor a lot of them have explained to me that we can have viruses bugs infection or cavitations and more going on in our body and our bodies cope with them so causing us no or little symptoms to tell us there is something wrong, until like the straw that broke the camel's back and the body say no! That enough this is too much!
When I started to be ill more than eight years ago now I had never heard of jaw bone cavitations, and knew very little of ME!
The familiar story of suddenly not feeling well then more and more strange symptoms would appear but what ever the doctors gave me it made no difference!
I had years of doctor giving me many different diagnosis and I'd go home and try to find out about the latest diagnoses but I would think well this doesn't sound like what I have!
Until by chance I was on a computer and just been introduced to the world of Google! When I came across a site called the hidden bone
Infection! As I read more and more I thought this is what I've got I was so excited I thought I have the answer! Unfortunately it,s not been that easy for a few reason! Which I will go into later if you are interested!
My point is the symptoms of ME and jaw bone cavitations are so similar!
So my questions today is has anyone explored the possibility of jaw bone cavitations! And if so what is your story!
Anyone input questions and more welcome!

 

[Sushi]

anna8

There have been a lot of posts about jaw bone cavitations. If you use the google search function you will find them. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?pages/google-search/

Member Ian has written a lot about his experience. You can search his posts.

Good luck!
Sushi

 

[anna8]

Thanks sushi!
I have read some post but not them all I must admit! I just thought someone may have something new to say! Or maybe some member who are new may be interested! And I was just thinking my story may just make someone think yes that happen to me!
So I'm guessing what you are saying is it's all been explored and nobody found a connection!
I'm guessing the members as bored of jaw bone cavitations!
Well I would like to tell people what my finding are so far and what happens to me next when I have more cavitations surgery which I'm thinking about at the moment and it is a really big decision! Which is why I have started this thread! If nobody has nothing to say then that ok!I just thought I'd try!
I've learnt through all this to be persistent!

Thanks again sushi!x

 

[Hip]

My point is the symptoms of ME and jaw bone cavitations are so similar!
So my questions today is has anyone explored the possibility of jaw bone cavitations! And if so what is your story!
Anyone input questions and more welcome!

I do appreciate the point you are making, Anna, and totally agree that the great similarities between ME/CFS and jaw bone infection symptoms are very intriguing and thought-provoking.

If these similarities were further investigated, might actually throw light on the mechanisms of ME/CFS.

It could well be that jaw bone infections are triggering the very same pathological mechanisms in the body that cause ME/CFS symptoms.

But it is perhaps no big surprise that an infection can cause ME/CFS, or ME/CFS symptoms, since ME/CFS is of course strongly linked to systemic infections with various microbes. For example, a systemic infection with Chlamydia pneumoniae bacteria is a known and recognized cause of ME/CFS, and systemic infections with viruses like enteroviruses are strongly linked to causing ME/CFS.

So given that systemic infections can cause ME/CFS, why couldn't a local infection also cause this disease?

The idea of a local infection causing global symptoms is not new; this concept has been considered for a long time, under the name of focal infection theory.

In the case of ME/CFS, I know that there are only two local infections (focal infections) that are known to cause ME/CFS symptoms, and those are infections in the jaw bone, and also infections in the tonsils. Why just these two? Well, it could be that their proximity to the brain plays a part: the inflammation produced by these infections near the brain could conceivably affect the brain itself, and thereby cause ME/CFS symptoms.

Chronic kidneys infections are also known to cause significant fatigue, though not actually ME/CFS.

 

[Sushi]

anna8

So I'm guessing what you are saying is it's all been explored and nobody found a connection!
I'm guessing the members as bored of jaw bone cavitations!

Not at all, just pointing you to other people's comments.

Sushi

 

[anna8]

Sorry sushi!
Reading it back I could of worded it better! I thought you were trying to say in a nice way instead of starting a new thread you would be better reading what has already been posted!
Best wishes anna

 

[Hip]

Your thoughts and experiences with this jaw bone cavitation are very interesting, Anna, and it is great you started this thread.

 

[anna8]

I do appreciate the point yoI co are making, Anna, and totally agree that the great similarities between ME/CFS and jaw bone infection symptoms are very intriguing and thought-provoking.

If these similarities were further investigated, might actually throw light on the mechanisms of ME/CFS.

It could well be that jaw bone infections are triggering the very same pathological mechanisms in the body that cause ME/CFS symptoms.

But it is perhaps no big surprise that an infection can cause ME/CFS, or ME/CFS symptoms, since ME/CFS is of course strongly linked to systemic infections with various microbes. For example, a systemic infection with Chlamydia pneumoniae bacteria is a known and recognized cause of ME/CFS, and systemic infections with viruses like enteroviruses are strongly linked to causing ME/CFS.

So given that systemic infections can cause ME/CFS, why couldn't a local infection also cause this disease?

The idea of a local infection causing global symptoms is not new; this concept has been considered for a long time, under the name of focal infection theory.

In the case of ME/CFS, I know that there are only two local infections (focal infections) that are known to cause ME/CFS symptoms, and those are infections in the jaw bone, and also infections in the tonsils. Why just these two? Well,
it could be that their proximity to the brain plays a part: the inflammation produced by these infections near the brain could conceivably affect the brain itself, and thereby cause ME/CFS symptoms.

Chronic kidneys infections are also known to cause significant fatigue, though not actually ME/CFS.

Thanks hip!
You have put many of my thoughts down much better than I could!

The problem with jaw bone infections is that they remain hidden because you can have these type of infection which is really more like gangrene or dead bone! And have little or no jaw symptoms or pain to alert you of there presences!
And like me you can have health gums and on the outside no problem with the teeth! But all the time the nasty toxins leaking into your system!
I do have facial pain which is horrible in it self but it has been easier to make up the dots to what is wrong!

 

[surrealsyndrome]

Hi everyone!
I'm going through all the symptoms of ME! Too many too mention like most of us!
But my story journey! Has dental and jaw bone connection, some by chance!
So after reading some of other members symptoms and stories I,be been thinking that other people may have jaw bone connection or dental connection too!
I have done a lot of research on the subject to try and help myself from this hell!! And maybe help others.
I have so much too say but because of my symptoms I find it hard to collect my thoughts and put them down on paper, so I thought I,d start this thread so I can say a little at a time at my own pace!

Most of us have a illness that can not be explained by conventional medicine!
Most of us are searching for answers to the same are similar symptoms!
Could it be jaw bone cavitations?
I feel quite certain that I have jaw bone cavitations! My problem is too find the best person to help me! I am considering going to Munro hall in the UK! I know another member has been there and had a good outcome!
My problem is I've already had a lot of work done I think by dentist who are out of there depths so have left me with bone loss and not many teeth!!
So before I go to Munro hall my last chance I feel I want to leave no stone unturned! And I know there is soo... much knowledge on this forum I welcome input questions and more!!

I think its more a matter of doctors not giving us all the tests and scans we need than convential medicine cant explain it although I do know conventional medicine is completly backwaards.I was on hummingbirds channel on youtube and shes got videos listing how to test for ME and how cfs isnt a real diagnosis which is a good point.Im going to look into cavitations

 

[anna8]

Hi surrealsyndrome!
I agree that doctor not offering a lot of test available, it seem to be a matter of luck to what test you get, and you need to your own research and push for test etc! And when you are so I'll it is hard!
If you do wish to look into jaw bone cavitatios then first maybe look into your past have you had your wisdom teeth out or any past problems in your month! Also if you had a lot or root canal treatment, this is not always the necessary but can often be the course!
good luck! And if I can help in anyway please ask!

 

[mellster]

That's definitely an interesting area to explore further - esp. since most doctors completely dismiss even the remote possibility of chronic localized bacterial infections with the standard argument that it would spin quickly out of control and you would have severe swelling and/or sepsis. I think they are wrong and time will tell (e.g. the bacteria does not have to live in/enter the bloodstream).

 

[Wayne]

This website may be of interest to some:

Toxic Teeth

It mentions using ozone injections to treat toxicities in the mouth. I've considered using various kinds of essential oils. My thoughts are that perhaps holding them in my mouth might help eradicate, or at least reduce a given level of infection.

 

[PeterPositive]

Quite a bit of time has passed since this thread has been started.
I've read quite a bit about these issues but I find it difficult to understand how such a bad local infection cannot be detected easily...
Maybe my assumption is incorrect and the idea is that these could be low grade infections that after a relatively long time are able to overtax the body?

Given the amount of wisdom teeth pulled and root canals performed on a daily basis I'd expect much more people to be badly sick...

I have pondered several times to investigate this aspect but I don't have a clue where to start from. It seems no conventional blood test or similar exam can give a clue about these sort of issues. Dentists or doctors that are expert in this field are very few and very far away from where I live. I would also be wary of undergoing such invasive procedures in my current state of health... I guess I'd do this more out of frustration than anything else... like "Screw it, nothing has worked so far, let's have dental surgery and see what happens".

sorry for the rant...

 

[Wayne]

sorry for the rant...

Hi Peter,

Interesting, I didn't even know this was a rant until the end. lol

I share some of the "frustrations" you mention. Regarding why such a bad infection can not be easily detected: I think it probably has to do with the fact that many of these are anaerobic infections, and in most cases much less prone to detection than normal aerobic infections.

Regarding why more people aren't sick as a result of some of these infections: I've assumed a big reason for this is that people who don't exhibit illness from these kinds of infections have immune and/or detoxification systems that are in much better shape than people who are susceptible to these kinds of infections, such as pwCFS,

I read an account once of how in the Appalachian mountains, an old time remedy that was sometimes tried for treating fatal diseases was to extract all of the teeth. It apparently brought many people back to health, although I don't recall what the percentages were, or whether they even had an idea of the success rate was.

I've always assumed those who recovered were able to remove a chronic source of mercury poisoning from amalgam fillings, and/or were able to clear out gum and tooth infections that were weighing on the body, and contributing to the disease they were dealing with.

To counteract any oral infections I may be dealing with, I do a lot of "oil pulling" with an oil of oregano solution, which I feel helps draw any lingering infections out of my teeth and gums. I then follow this with a solution of bentonite clay. I also ingest bentonite clay daily to absorb various toxicities in my body, including those stemming from my mouth. I don't know how well this is all working for me, but I usually feel better when I do this.

BTW, feel free to rant any time. I think we've all earned the right!

Wayne

 

[manna]

interesting about extracting all the teeth as a last ditch attempt to help a fatal illness. teeth can certainly be a major player i think. there was the tonight programme on british tv reporting how many folk had chronic pain abate immediately upon removal of metal crowns. i believe cavitations are found by way of xray, though they are very difficult to interpret correctly, as you're looking for a hole or a nothing within the bone structure. these infections are enclosed so blood testing would be tricky i think. i believe one mode of action maybe the toxic soup contained in these cavitations seeping into the body but probably its more the instant "energetic" affect on the whole system via the cns or meridians.

for future reference, to avoid cavitations, go to a dentist, generally wholistic, who is understanding of this issue and be VERY sure to have ALL the periodontal ligament removed/burred from the cavity of the extracted tooth, as it is this ligament, supposedly, that rots in the cavity if its left on and the hole closes over.

hal huggins, mercury free dental pioneer, claimed to only have success treating lou gherrigs (serious form of MS i think) if cavitations were addressed.

ive been xrayed for them and was told that they didn't think they were causing my health probs. could be true but then he also thought large amounts of mercury for root canals was ok, which i don't.

 

[manna]

i forgot to add. regarding having all your teeth removed to combat a fatal illness...not fatal but ive wondered why my mother and granma kept their mental clarity whilst father and grandpa didn't. id wondered if it was cos the women had, respectively, none and very little teeth remaining, whilst the men had mouths full of mercury and teeth

 

[PeterPositive]

@Wayne and @manna
Thanks, interesting comments. I have been reading about several anecdotes and "horror stories" over the years about these problems. I find it pretty difficult to wrap my head around these issues. There are relatively few of these specialists around and every one has his own strong opinions on what should and should not be done. Root canals are the work of the devil, root canals are ok only if done correctly, the material X is the only one that is good to replace mercury fillings, the material X is as dangerous as anything else. All metals in the mouth create disturbing micro currents, some metals can be used without problems... A dead tooth should be pulled, a dead tooth should be cured appropriately... and so and so forth...

I've read of many people doing the pilgrimage from one alternative/holistic dentist to the other just to hear completely opposite and contrasting opinions. Not that this totally unexpected... but sometimes the amount of contradiction is bewildering!

Problem is, if you go to the doc and he gives you some pills that don't work or have bad side effects you can quickly stop the cure and discuss it with the doc or search for another practitioner. With the dentist you don't have this luxury, you either have the procedure done or not, and if you do and it make things worse you'll regret it for a much longer time...

I am pretty much sure that if I went to see one of these biological dentists they would find some problems (I have some mercury for example, 3 old fillings and at least 1 root canal that I can remember of) and of course it would be necessary to go ahead and fix them, hoping that the situation improves.

At this point is not even an option for me because I cannot take any anti-inflammatory drugs, antibiotics or pain killers. Should there be problems with the procedure, I wouldn't even be able to fight the pain, or worse an infection.

So ... cool, maybe part of my problem is there but I don't even dare to open that can of worms. At least not now.

ETA: fixed a dozen typos... where was my head when I was typing??