ALA concern

[motorhead]

I've used 4 different ALA supplements over time. PolyMVA was used when I was trying to detox, It's a special formulation that grabs onto toxins and mitochondria and pulls them out. I would recommend it only when supporting all the other facets of detoxing, so you can deal with what's being mobilized.

The others I've used as a general antioxidant, which can recycle both water soluble and fat soluble antioxidants. I find it can dramatically increase my energy.

Here is a link to Thorne's r-lipoic acid product where it explains the difference between r-lipoic acid and regular alpha lipoic acid.

https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/r-lipoic-acid

It's a great product, but the problem I have with it is the dose is too low. Even if it's double the effect of regular alpha lipoic acid, at 100 mg when I found up to 2.4 grams a day of ALA helps me, I'm not going to take 12 or 24 pills to get there. I have used both the Doctor's Best ALA 600 and Xymogen ALAmax CR. I was originally on the Xymogen product, which contains biotin as well. There's some literature saying that biotin and ALA compete with each other and not to take them together, So the Doctor's Best is just ALA at 600mg, which I've taken up to 4 pills per day of and have done well with it over time.

Hope this helps.

Thank you!
First time I've heard of this Poly-MVA, I run across the Justice Department civil complaint to stop distribution for the cancer-related claims by the company that makes it.
So you've basically chelated with Poly-MVA, interesting.
Yea I remember your high dosages of ALA for antioxidant purposes, if I could tolerate such quantities I would need to fit them into chelation rounds.
Use of ALA over R-LA is due to more stable levels in the blood according to Culter.

 

[motorhead]

I had another thought regarding negative reactions to ALA. It is a highly sulphur producing supplement and I believe many of us have problems with sulphur supplementation.

Having taken ALA as per Cutler to get rid of mercury poisoning I always ended up with severe migraines on it which of course made me a lot worse.


Pam

Do you get reactions from MSM too?

 

[motorhead]

https://www.deannaminich.com/is-there-really-such-a-thing-as-sulfur-intolerance/

For some reason oats seem to be the only food source of cysteine that keep my sulfate metabolism going, other food sources don't do it for me and my gut bacteria start making sulfate to compensate. Which is the reason behind considering SIBO as a protective mechanism rather than an issue to be treated.

 

[bertiedog]

Molybdenum can be helpful as can B6. And oxalates might be an issue.

Yes I do take both of these daily. My oxalate producing bacteria were not flagged up as an issue I am glad to say.

I am fine with daily broccoli and cauliflower they don't cause me any issues and the bacteria that modulate these foods were high.

It seems to be the concentrated supplements like ALA, GSH and MSM that aren't good for me.

Pam

 

[Learner1]

Yes I do take both of these daily. My oxalate producing bacteria were not flagged up as an issue I am glad to say.

I am fine with daily broccoli and cauliflower they don't cause me any issues and the bacteria that modulate these foods were high.

It seems to be the concentrated supplements like ALA, GSH and MSM that aren't good for me.

Pam

ALA Is the only thing that can recycle both fat soluble and water soluble antioxidants. It is necessary in your body

Glutathione is the body's most powerful antioxidant, and it gets used up and needs to be recycled with vitamin C.

None of these things works in isolation. They work on different tasks and with different cofactors and solve different problems. The body is like a complex orchestra with all the different instruments playing their little piece, with all of them working together to create harmony. Playing a trombone loudly in the middle of it won't help, even if you bang a drum loudly next to it.

 

[Learner1]

For some reason oats seem to be the only food source of cysteine that keep my sulfate metabolism going, other food sources don't do it for me and my gut bacteria start making sulfate to compensate. Which is the reason behind considering SIBO as a protective mechanism rather than an issue to be treated.

Can you please explain how you determined the cysteine in oats keeps your sulfur metabolism going? It seems likely that oats could be doing a lot of other things in your body to make other things work, too. Cysteine doesn't work in isolation. It needs other amino acids, like glycine, glutamine, and others to comine and form other chemicals used by the body.

Could you please provide a source that demonstrates that SIBO is protective and not a problem?

 

[Learner1]

Thank you!
First time I've heard of this Poly-MVA, I run across the Justice Department civil complaint to stop distribution for the cancer-related claims by the company that makes it.
So you've basically chelated with Poly-MVA, interesting.
Yea I remember your high dosages of ALA for antioxidant purposes, if I could tolerate such quantities I would need to fit them into chelation rounds.
Use of ALA over R-LA is due to more stable levels in the blood according to Culter.

Cutler is very narrow in his focus. His mercury detox protocol is aimed at people who don't have doctors to help them, and is aimed at keeping them out of trouble. If I had used Cutler's protocol, I would still be chelating 40 years from now and if I didn't die along the way from toxicity of other metals. Too many people quote his advice as gospel without really delving into the science deeply. There's a lot more to be learned.

As for the FDA and Justice Department, There has been a concerted effort to stomp out any possible alternative cancer treatment. The FDA recently banned thymosin alpha 1, which actually was an FDA approved drug in 2006, but was not marketed in the US, but more widely in Asia, and there are many studies showing its success at killing cancer, increasing NK cell function, etc. It is effective and useful, and many of us were getting it from compounding pharmacies, prescribed by our MDs,. But in its wisdom, the FDA banned it because people were using it as a COVID fighting treatment.

They also banned dichloroacetate, which I have seen very successfully used, in combination with Poly MVA to treat some difficult cancers that conventional cancer therapies had failed.

These are just a few examples, there are many more, like I said, as a broad strategy against alternatives to expensive and damaging chemotherapy drugs and radiation. As a stage 3 cancer survivor, I'm not saying there isn't a place for every single one of these tools, only that it is useful, as a patient, to have a large toolbox of strategies one's doctor can prescribe when the situation is right.

ALA, in any form, should only be used as part of an overall strategy and not by itself

 

[motorhead]

Can you please explain how you determined the cysteine in oats keeps your sulfur metabolism going? It seems likely that oats could be doing a lot of other things in your body to make other things work, too. Cysteine doesn't work in isolation. It needs other amino acids, like glycine, glutamine, and others to comine and form other chemicals used by the body.

Could you please provide a source that demonstrates that SIBO is protective and not a problem?

Yup I can try to; unfortuntately for dacades I've had to endure constant 'fumes' coming from the GI tract, I think fumes is an appropriate description. I've had those at a level of say 50 on a scale from 0 to 100, in '19 for whatever reason these fumes raised to say close to 100 literally burning my tongue, it was unbelievable and very frustrating as GI doctors had no clue and I wasted a lot of time. What I noticed during many trials and erros was that the low FODMAP diet, the one that people with SIBO often times follow, made this fumes go away.
As this diet isn't really sustainable, I lasted like a few days, I had to cope again with fumes coming back. Eventually, kind of by chance but thanks to the videos I'm posting below I tried NAC which made the fumes go away immediately. When I started to look into cysteine sources from food, oats 'clicked' in my mind as I made the connection to the one time time I was fumes-free the day after eating an entire box of those breakfast oats for dinner. I didn't think much of it at the time. Oats, like NAC, free my airways and I basically experience the same 'sensations' on those two things. Afaik the only thing in common they have is cysteine, I don't think NAC increases glycine or glutamine but yes there can be more in oats that make their cysteine work particularly well on me. What surprises me is how all the other foods with cysteine have no effect whatsoever on the fumes.

I first heard about the theory behind SIBO as a protection mechanism in these two videos:
Short version

Long one

As you learn in the videos it's not the author of the videos' idea as he credits Stephanie Seneff, so an even more detailed explanation is present in her works. From my perspective this stuff makes a lot of sense, I can't thank them both enough for solving what had become a life debilitating problem for numerous reasons.

 

[motorhead]

Cutler is very narrow in his focus. His mercury detox protocol is aimed at people who don't have doctors to help them, and is aimed at keeping them out of trouble. If I had used Cutler's protocol, I would still be chelating 40 years from now and if I didn't die along the way from toxicity of other metals. Too many people quote his advice as gospel without really delving into the science deeply. There's a lot more to be learned.

As for the FDA and Justice Department, There has been a concerted effort to stomp out any possible alternative cancer treatment. The FDA recently banned thymosin alpha 1, which actually was an FDA approved drug in 2006, but was not marketed in the US, but more widely in Asia, and there are many studies showing its success at killing cancer, increasing NK cell function, etc. It is effective and useful, and many of us were getting it from compounding pharmacies, prescribed by our MDs,. But in its wisdom, the FDA banned it because people were using it as a COVID fighting treatment.

They also banned dichloroacetate, which I have seen very successfully used, in combination with Poly MVA to treat some difficult cancers that conventional cancer therapies had failed.
All the doctors on the polymva site are in US maybe I can ask for a consultation online once I have my finances back on track.

These are just a few examples, there are many more, like I said, as a broad strategy against alternatives to expensive and damaging chemotherapy drugs and radiation. As a stage 3 cancer survivor, I'm not saying there isn't a place for every single one of these tools, only that it is useful, as a patient, to have a large toolbox of strategies one's doctor can prescribe when the situation is right.

ALA, in any form, should only be used as part of an overall strategy and not by itself

I know, I just reported what I found, I wouldn't trust the FDA guidance to get my health back.
The PDFs look interesting, seems like this Garnett doctor was focused on B1 too like the the channel I linked in the previous post.
Have to read through this material, not the easiest of tasks with this brain fog I'm getting.
Yes, I fit in the group that can benefit from Cutler's protocol as it's relatively low cost and can be followed with no help from a doctor. Just this week I heard what a doctor I was supposed to go see, supposedly specialized in cfs, was giving to patients, let's just say he would be laughed at in here.
The docs on the polymva site are all in US maybe I can get an online consult if get my finances sorted, a remote eventuality.
Did you take polymva (for chelation) at similar intervals to the ones of ALA in Cutler's protcol? (2 hours)

 

[Learner1]

I am not at all a fan of EO. He's self-serving, out to make money, and is not useful if you have questions.

There is no good substitute for a comprehensive nutrient test like Genova Diagnostics Metabolomix+. Many of the issues you have alluded to are related to significant nutrient imbalances. Finding out what's driving this problem, and getting after it can dramatically change your outcome.

You might contact AMARC and speak to their president, Gary, I think. He told me he had a patient that was Hungarian who smoked like a chimney but had been doing heavy dose PolyMVA for the past 12 years, remained cancer-free and had less toxins than otherwise.

 

[motorhead]

I didn't book a consultation with him eventually, was in the 200 euros ballpark.
Plus not keen on working with vegans, he told me.
Can drop an email to the only authorized doc on the Geova website, who being in Switzerland is not even in my same country. Maybe he can give me an estimate of the cost.
Always wondered don't samples deteriorate? urine one for example, shipping it to a lab in US.
PolyMVA is totally out of my budget unfortunately.

 

[Learner1]

I didn't book a consultation with him eventually, was in the 200 euros ballpark.

He's not a clinician - he's the CEO of a company, trying to make money selling his product. His time was free.

Plus not keen on working with vegans, he told me.

Being a vegan with this disease is a very bad idea for several reasons:

1. ME/CFS patients tend to run out of amino acids, and it's virtually impossible to get enough protein from plant based sources without getting too much fiber and too many carbohydrates.
2. Most plant based protein powders, even most organic ones, are contaminated with heavy metals
3. ME/CFS patients tend to need more fats for cell and mitochondrial membrane health, including EPA, DHA, and saturated fats
4. Animal.profucts tend to have minerals that are difficult to get on a vegan diet.
5. Many ME/CFS patients have oxalate problems originating in oxalate degrading gut bacteria being killed off by antibiotics, and there's no probiotic to replenish them Oxalate groups are filled with people who used to do green smoothies and vegan diets but found their virtuous duets were slowly killing them. Oxalates are in all plant protein foods, spinach, root vegetables, beans, raspberries, nuts, etc. They bind up minerals, making them unavailable and deposit them in organs and tissues, like muscles, joints, thyroid, lungs, eyes, kidneys, etc. They can cause pain, oxidative stress and fatigue.

Always wondered don't samples deteriorate? urine one for example, shipping it to a lab in US

They have tubes with preservatives and the kit has a large ice brick that you freeze in advance and overnight ship back to them.

 

[motorhead]

His time was free.

I'm not sure what you mean, his rate for a consultation:

Being a vegan with this disease is a very bad idea for several reasons:

1. ME/CFS patients tend to run out of amino acids, and it's virtually impossible to get enough protein from plant based sources without getting too much fiber and too many carbohydrates.
2. Most plant based protein powders, even most organic ones, are contaminated with heavy metals
3. ME/CFS patients tend to need more fats for cell and mitochondrial membrane health, including EPA, DHA, and saturated fats
4. Animal.profucts tend to have minerals that are difficult to get on a vegan diet.
5. Many ME/CFS patients have oxalate problems originating in oxalate degrading gut bacteria being killed off by antibiotics, and there's no probiotic to replenish them Oxalate groups are filled with people who used to do green smoothies and vegan diets but found their virtuous duets were slowly killing them. Oxalates are in all plant protein foods, spinach, root vegetables, beans, raspberries, nuts, etc. They bind up minerals, making them unavailable and deposit them in organs and tissues, like muscles, joints, thyroid, lungs, eyes, kidneys, etc. They can cause pain, oxidative stress and fatigue.

quickly:
-I started experiencing cfs symptons ages before going vegan.
-never had a green smoothie in my life, don't even own a blender.
-I did have the occasional juice, with fruits at juice bars.
-How are the likes of John of Okraw not already at the cemetery?
-purchased veg protein powder for the first time in my life last month due to overwatching Swayze's videos I guess.
-I have no problem supplmenting EPA/DHA, I didn't go vegan for ethical reasons.
-at 28 I found myself still covered in acne on the body and developed chronic bronichistis that won't go away despite antibiotics for months (on docs prescription of course), one week on a veg diet cleared both.
-I had high oxalates back on the 'regular diet'

Wouldn't I have felt much better on the periods when I went oxalate free? been down that rabbit hole.
Minerals: and I was hoping supplementing with all sorts of minerals, the dermal ones being the most recent would bring a change. Still, again, this raises the question, what about before I went vegan?
I also believe vegans in here are like what, 1% of forum users. How do all these things fit into the hypotheses I read in the general section; viruses, kidneys infections, autoimmune diseases, you name it (bad idea to head over there yesterday night).

 

[Learner1]

I'm not sure what you mean, his rate for a consultation:

Having listened to enough of Overton's pronouncements, I'd be very wary about consulting with him. He's a self promoter, making money off of the vulnerable.

I meant the head of AMARC.


My point was that a vegan diet is not adequate in many of the nutrients that researchers have found are depleted in ME/CFS. It is easier to improve if one's nutrient status is replete. Comprehensive nutrient testing would tell you.

 

[motorhead]

Having listened to enough of Overton's pronouncements, I'd be very wary about consulting with him. He's a self promoter, making money off of the vulnerable.

I meant the head of AMARC.

ah ok just a misunderstanding, I can get in touch AMARAC's CEO.

 

[motorhead]

1. Most plant based protein powders, even most organic ones, are contaminated with heavy metals

I looked a bit into it and assume the Clean Label Project report is what you were referring to, seems whey have the same problem tho to a lesser extent but top 4 offenders were; veg,non-veg, non-veg, veg.
I'm much more concerned about what I've read about supplementing with proteins of any kinds and the second part of the video about BCAAs.
Also interesting to see vegans had higher albumin serum levels than non vegan in the last study linked in the description of the video.