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Adrenaline surges?

Messages
47
Jeffy14 - Yes I tried GABA. First time I took it it had a weird effect. My throat felt tingly and uncomfortable, and then I started to feel very very sedated, but not in a good way. I just felt...weird.

However, whenever I've took it since it has had little effect! Very odd.

I may try it again at a higher dose.

I tried 5HTP but it had weird effects on me. I felt disorientated and dizzy and got heart palpitations. And it didn't help this wired problem.

As for paracetamol - that's a painkiller in the UK? Not sure how that would help. In any case I do take them for pain but they haven't helped this problem.

I do find valerian helps a little bit. It's not a miracle, but it is kinda soothing. I tend to take it at night.

Hello,

Thanks for your answer.
I bought 5htp and Gabba to try it out when I'm wired :)
Also, yes paracetamol is a painkiller but it really puts me asleep.
When I'm really wired, I take 1g but it usually does not work and I wake up in the next hour so when I wake up I take another 1g.
It really makes a difference for me.
They also sell Ibuprofen or paracetemol (advil PM or tylenol PM)+ Diphenhydramine.
Diphenhydramine puts you asleep but I noticed I have a lot of troubles to wake up the next morning. Yes you fall asleep but the next morning you still fell asleep for long hours...
Give it a try, maybe it's different for you.
 

Lucinda

Senior Member
Messages
118
Location
UK
Yes I'm familiar with Diphenhydramine. It is in 'Nytol' which is an over-the-counter sleeping pill in the UK. I do take it at night sometimes, and I do find it helps me sleep as long as I'm not too 'wired' and as long as I don't take it too early. I also can't take it often else it stops making me sleep and just makes me feel awful instead!

I would say it's my favourite of the non-prescription sleep meds though. I don't have troubles waking up after taking it. However I do have that trouble with another antihistamine - Promethazine Hydrochloride. This is in 'Sominex'. It makes me sleep for ages, and when I finally wake up, I'm totally wiped out for the rest of the day and usually have to stay in bed most of the day. However this is quite useful occassionally when I am very over tired due to lack of sleep. Last time I took it I slept for 15 hours!!! And even after that I had to spend most of the next 24 hours in bed. I was really overtired though.
 

Lucinda

Senior Member
Messages
118
Location
UK
I was talking to an acupuncturist online about this 'wired' problem, and she says it can be caused by an overactive immune system.

This interests me as ever since developing this problem, I haven't caught virus'. Even if everyone in my house has a cold or whatever, I don't get it. When before I had ME, I caught loads of virus'!

I don't know much about the immune system though. Does anyone else think this problem with feeling wired/restless/unable to relax could have something to do with an overactive immune system? And what can a person do to calm this down?
 
Messages
2,565
Location
US
I think it's because of the body being stressed. By things that shouldn't be difficult, but they are for us. Like walking up stairs, or more basic movements. Also because of hormones and how we usually get into a perpetual bad cycle with sleep problems (then the sleep causes hormone and other problems).

In my case I have a very overactive "fight or flight" system which gets easily triggered and is harder to calm down. I don't think we all have the same problems but usually have 2 or more out of the main list of symptoms.

I do think I have an overactive immune system too but I get sick easily, the opposite of you. I think I have one or more HGRVs making me sick, causing my immune system to be struggling, but it's an uphill battle. I think my immune system is confused and attacks too many other things, which causes me difficulty.
 
Messages
62
I used to get major surges . Now with eliminating the foods and chemicals that I am sensitive they are better. So I avoid many things as I am super responder , being intolerant of amines, salcylates, gluten, sulfur foods, sulfites to name a few.

I take homeopathics for my adrenals. The most beneficial so far has been homeopathic of the hypothalamus. This helps my heart, stops my sweating due to poor adrenals , as well as calms and balances my energy,,,

nanci
 

richvank

Senior Member
Messages
2,732
Hello,

Also, yes paracetamol is a painkiller but it really puts me asleep.
When I'm really wired, I take 1g but it usually does not work and I wake up in the next hour so when I wake up I take another 1g.
It really makes a difference for me.

Hi, Jeffy14.

I just want to encourage you to be careful with paracetamol (APAP, acetaminophen, or Tylenol in the U.S.). This drug depletes glutathione in the liver if taken at high dosages. Overdose of this drug (sometimes intentionally, but not always) has been reported to be the main cause of the need for a liver transplant.

Best regards,

Rich
 

richvank

Senior Member
Messages
2,732
Hi, all.

For what it's worth, I'm going to suggest what has gone on biochemically in the scenarios you have been describing.

First, one of the features of ME/CFS is dysfunction of the HPA (hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal) axis. The result of this is that the body is not able to secrete cortisol in the proper amounts and with the right timing to cope with stress of all sorts. I have suggested a mechanism for this dysfunction that involves depletion of glutathione in the hypothalamus and pituitary. Dr. de Meirleir, on the other hand, has found that hydrogen sulfide production by dysbiotic bacteria in the gut is responsible for disrupting the operation of the hypothalamus and causing this dysfunction. Perhaps both of these mechanisms occur, we don't know yet.

If a person continues to undergo stress (and it could be physical stress from exercise as well as other kinds of stress) and the cortisol is not able to be secreted properly, then adrenaline (epinephrine) secretion will be substituted in its place to promote your survival. However, adrenaline does not substitute exactly for cortisol, so that this does not work very well. In addition, the extra adrenaline has to be metabolized (broken down or detoxed). Particularly in people who have inherited certain polymorphisms in the COMT enzyme and the GST enzymes, the metabolism of adrenaline can cause what is called redox cycling. This involves production of oxidizing free radicals, which raises the oxidative stress and further depletes glutathione.

Glutathione depletion in the astrocytes in the brain causes a partial block in the Krebs cycle in the mitochondria, and that lowers the production of ATP. ATP is needed to power the import of glutamate from the synapses, and its conversion to glutamine, for recycling to the neurons. Glutamate is the main excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain. The result of this is that too many glutamate molecules remain in the synaptic gaps between the neurons. They therefore stimulate the NMDA receptors on these neurons too much, and that is what produces the excitotoxicity.

The symptoms of excitotoxicity include the "wired" feeling you have described, as well as anxiety, insomnia, and hypersensitivity of the senses.

Dr. Amy Yasko has suggested a list of supplements that can help to calm excitotoxicity. These include GABA, theanine, magnesium, taurine, grape seed extract, pycnogenol, progesterone, Valerian root, and jujube. She is also coming out with a Glutamate/GABA spray in the future, that will combine some of these supplements.

In the long run, the solution to this problem is to raise glutathione, and in order to do that, it is necessary to lift the partial block in the methylation cycle. Information about this can be found at www.cfsresearch.org

I hope this is helpful.

Best regards,

Rich

Hi, all.

I want to add something to what I wrote before about the biochemistry of the condition that is the subject of this thread.

As I noted, the astrocytes in the brain normally import glutamate from the synapses of the neurons, and convert it to glutamine. Then they export it back to the neurons, so that they can use it to make glutamate again. If this recycling does not happen rapidly enough, glutamate builds up in the synapses, and that causes the neurons to fire too rapidly, which is what is involved in causing excitotoxicity. I described a possible cause of this, namely depletion of glutathione, which lowers the rate of production of ATP, which is needed to power the importation and the conversion of glutamate.

Another possible cause of excitotoxicity might be a deficiency of manganese. The reason is that manganese is a cofactor for the enzyme that converts glutamate to glutamine, which is called glutamine synthetase. Manganese deficiency can be detected with a blood test.

Best regards,

Rich
 

Enid

Senior Member
Messages
3,309
Location
UK
Thanks for all that Richvank very useful indeed in understanding - and appropriately addressing.
 

Fogbuster

Senior Member
Messages
269
Anyone found an answer or reasonable explanation as to what is causing the "adrenaline surges"?

For me I feel it's caused by or goes hand in hand with OI. The more I stand still, whilst standing, the worse the wired full body adrenaline surge becomes.

The same symptom occurs if I have a cigarette, which leads me to think it could be adrenals causing the problem. Then again I've had an adrenal stress profile which has come back normal. Rich's theory is very interesting.

So, ultimately has anyone had any success with tackling this horrible symptom?
 
Messages
2,565
Location
US
For me I feel it's caused by or goes hand in hand with OI. The more I stand still, whilst standing, the worse the wired full body adrenaline surge becomes.

That is known to happen, the body is trying to compensate for being upright. Sorry I don't have a detailed explanation.

Most ME/CFS patients have OI and low blood volume, 80% of normal.
 
Messages
81
Location
Indiana, US
I get this symptom too except randomly. Sometimes I'll get it after sipping water even. Want it to stop. It feels like it keeps getting worse and that it'll kill me.